Question about buying from "non-authorized" re-sellers

[pescador775]

I don't care if they handle travel, I don't care if they teach Scuba. I really don't even care if they provide service. What I care is that they offer a product at a price I want, and have it in stock. I would rather use people local, or people I trust for my servicing of product. I can manage travel on my own, and I live in Florida, I won't be taking Scuba lessons in NYC.

Dive shops were making money by selling courses and loading the student diver with equipment. However, at some point, the shops and OEM's realized that some of their certified divers were delinquent, inactive and not buying stuff; in other words, no repeat business. The industry started a big campaign to stimulate repeat business-- and the drivers were day trips, caribbean trips, repetitive courses(open water, extreme open water, etc), anything to generate more business and more divers coming through the turnstile. Now, this activity not only generates business and dollars but is being billed as a "service". Nice.

 

[Darryl Bowerman]

Like I said....Sorry I got into it but.....

No doubt we are all here to make money but speaking from my history with the Oceanic/AERIS companies we also do many, many things to support this industries growth. Bob Hollis got into this business because of a love of diving, a love of the product and that still drive him and most of us that work in this industry. And don't flog me with that altruistic garbage....everyone wants to make a living, but nothing wrong with doing it in an industry and sport you love and have a passion for. Without people locally teaching diving, we don't create divers. While understanding the obvious love of a good deal. But don't you want to buy from someone who can provide a manufactures warranty?

Speaking from my own experiences I have seen many instances where a consumer had difficulty with a product purchased from a non-warrantied dealer and sorry to say they pay the price in the long run if something does not work right.

The brands I represent do support online sales from warrantied retailers and anyone who attempts to tie a retailers hands is kidding themselves. I hope none of the retailers I deal with lose a sale for no reason. You have to be competitive.

Bottom line is I don't harbor bad feelings to LP. They were smart, they were on the intenet from the get go and they are successful. More power to them.

What's a big boy?

 

[PerroneFord]

No problem getting into it in an adult manner. Especially with someone "in the industry".

Somehow people in the industry have the feeling that a "dive shop" has to be all things to all people. They must sell gear, service gear, provide fills, do dive travel, have a buddy board, etc. etc. Take a marketing lesson from Les Wexner. Market segmentation is good for business. PADI, NAUI, SSI, etc, will provide instructors for Scuba if the need is sufficient. You don't need a dozen shops in an area training divers. Honestly, I think a number of LDS's would do a FAR better job if they would STOP trying to train divers and focus on selling and servicing gear. We, as consumers, do not need a one-stop shop for all things diving.

There are some items I most certainly want a warranty on. Like a regulator. But the warranties tend to be rather short. And then it becomes a residual money maker for the manufacturer, and a bad deal for me. "Free parts for life" is the biggest regulator sham going. We both know it, so lets not go there. Do I really need a warranty on my JetFins? How about my $140 AL80? My steel backplate? Lets be realistic here.

Oceanic/Aeris do a wonderful job with internet sales, and in fact, their local dealers are able to compete favorably. I own an Oceanic regulator in fact. Works great.

I'm glad you don't harbor ill-will toward LP. I don't think ANYONE should unless as a consumer, you got poor service. They do a very simple job. And they do it well enough to be a major player in the Scuba online retail market. Good for them. I've bought from them in the past, and will do so again should the need arise.

Again, thank you for your thoughts and comments.

Like I said....Sorry I got into it but.....

No doubt we are all here to make money but speaking from my history with the Oceanic/AERIS companies we also do many, many things to support this industries growth. Bob Hollis got into this business because of a love of diving, a love of the product and that still drive him and most of us that work in this industry. And don't flog me with that altruistic garbage....everyone wants to make a living, but nothing wrong with doing it in an industry and sport you love and have a passion for. Without people locally teaching diving, we don't create divers. While understanding the obvious love of a good deal. But don't you want to buy from someone who can provide a manufactures warranty?

Speaking from my own experiences I have seen many instances where a consumer had difficulty with a product purchased from a non-warrantied dealer and sorry to say they pay the price in the long run if something does not work right.

The brands I represent do support online sales from warrantied retailers and anyone who attempts to tie a retailers hands is kidding themselves. I hope none of the retailers I deal with lose a sale for no reason. You have to be competitive.

Bottom line is I don't harbor bad feelings to LP. They were smart, they were on the intenet from the get go and they are successful. More power to them.

What's a big boy?

 

[cerich]

We actually see a combination here in the US, In many parts of the world there are many more "shops" that do just sales or just instruction etc.

In an area like your region there is much more room for a shop that does just one, in most areas of the US there simply isn't a large enough market.

If it does make sense ($$$) for a "sub specialty" shop in a given market it would be foolish not to do so.

 

[rossinger]

For the record...I am an authorized dealer and technician.

It is true that I will fix your reg whether or not it is under warranty...but you will pay for those parts. While we are talking about life sustaining gear, doesn't it make more sense to stack the deck of safety in your favor? You buy on Ebay or the web, you simply can not be guaranteed what you get and certainly will have no "customer service" to speak to. I check serial numbers. I protect my clients.

 

[PuyallupCoug]

"Free parts for life" is the biggest regulator sham going. We both know it, so lets not go there.

I'm still new to diving and haven't yet purchased a regulator. I was considering LP for an MK17 knowing full well that I would be giving up my "Free parts for life" from Scubapro since LP was not an authorized dealer.

My question is, how is "Free parts for life" the biggest regulator sham out there? It's an honest question, not a flame.

Thanks!

 

[PerroneFord]

Dude...This thread is 2 years old.

Sham:

1. All parts are not included in the "free parts".
2. Warranty is void if you skip a year. Ever.
3. Price premium from authorized seller is often worth many years of "free parts".
4. Warranty only good for original owner

 

[RonFrank]

Consequently, most brand name manufacturers do not allow online sales. Some companies, such as LeisurePro, purchase products from Europe and market them in the US over the internet. They are not authorized dealers and cannot offer manufacturer's warranties.

And any dealer caught selling below the MAP price will lose his authorization for the product line. Manufacturers are really protecting the consumer with this practice and I applaud them for being strict in effectuating this policy.

Ummmm... BS!

Scuba Manufactures have been controlling prices for decades, and it's time for it to stop.

Most brand name manufactures DO allow online sales. In fact I can only think of a couple that do not.

LP buys MOST of their products HERE in the USA, often directly from the manufacture, but sometimes from various other outlets.

Manufactures are protecting THEMSELVES, and no one else. I personally have more faith in LP than I do in a lot of the manufactures out there.

We have companies like Suunto that sell their watches all day long online... UNLESS... it's a scuba watch....THOSE are different, and why? The answer is.... I have no freeking clue!

When the YaHoo Scuba Market finally gets into 1995, MAYBE we shall see this all end. In fact it has ended to a large degree, but not with some manufactures.

 

[herman]

My question is, how is "Free parts for life" the biggest regulator sham out there? It's an honest question, not a flame.

Thanks!

The reason many of us consider the warranty, to use PF words, a sham is the actual value of the warranty. The parts that are covered are for the most part very inexpensive. Depending on the reg, 3 or 4 Orings, a HP seat and maybe a diaphram in a first stage or a couple of orings and a LP seat in a second stage are the only parts that get changed in a normal service. The actual value (not to be confused with what the manuf charges for them) of these parts is less than a couple of dollars per stage. Granted on occasion you will need a part that is not normally replaced but this is not too common and some parts like hoses and mouth pieces are not covered anyway. To be sure there are times when the warranty pays off but it's not often. The real cost of getting a reg serviced is in the labor which is not covered. This runs in the $25-35 per stage or around $75-105 for 1st/2nd/octo. Depending on the manuf, you have to keep good records and make darn sure your not late or they will not honor the warranty making it somewhat a PITA to keep up with. The cost of rebuild kits varies a lot but an average is in the $10-25 per stage range. For those of us who choose to do our own work, it's often times cheaper just to buy the parts and the heck with the warranty.....come to think of it, if they want to create a warranty that would make me happy, just mail me the rebuild kits and charge me postage.