Quality of Students

[Paco]

aquatec makes a good point. IMO, both are important: the agency for setting the standards, the instructor for meeting and exceeding them. To choose THE most important of the two, I would have to say the individual that works so closely with the student, the instructor.

 

[detroit diver]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


First off I am not at all against some type of periodic testing/recertification for instructors. On the contrary I believe we need it. The problem there is do we currently have a valid test? If we did maybe we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Certification at the diver level though is not a license. The effects of a divers actions on others is very limited (like any other activity). That isn't true for doctors, lawyers or commercial pilots.


To answer your question, for some ratings I am required to teach a minimum number of classes per year or go through a recertification process. Hey that's like what pilots do, they have to have so many hours in certain environments or do a check ride with an instructor to become current. For others I am only required to pay the anual membership fee and show proof of insurance. Of course the above assumes there have bee no QA actions and you are in good standing with the agency.

You'll never have a valid test if the agencies don't want it!

Certification IS a license. Without it, you can't dive or get airfills or purchase equipment. (Of course you can do all of that surepticiously, but that's true of all of the other items also). And while I agree with you that a doctor or lawyer has much more potential liability to others, those numbers are still very small. A diver in trouble can affect a whole boatload (pun intended!) of people.

 

[joens]

every good instructor adds something [if not a lot ] to the minimum guidelines the agencies require.

 

[MikeFerrara]

detroit diver once bubbled...


You'll never have a valid test if the agencies don't want it!

Certification IS a license. Without it, you can't dive or get airfills or purchase equipment. (Of course you can do all of that surepticiously, but that's true of all of the other items also). And while I agree with you that a doctor or lawyer has much more potential liability to others, those numbers are still very small. A diver in trouble can affect a whole boatload (pun intended!) of people.

there are lots of ways we can endanger others. IMO, we should leave some things to the descretion of the individual. Good training is what improves ones jugment. Even if you recert you could bite off more than you could chew on any one dive so the important decisions are still in the hands of the individual and his teammates.

As an instructor I'm up for any recert requirements the agency decides to implement. As a diver, though, I don't want a cert to represent a lifetime attatchment to or dependance on that agency

 

[detroit diver]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


......
As an instructor I'm up for any recert requirements the agency decides to implement. As a diver, though, I don't want a cert to represent a lifetime attatchment to or dependance on that agency

I agree with you completely about agency dependance. There would have to be a way to cross-comply within the industry.

 

[DiverBuoy]

AquaTec once bubbled...
well I am the single person to pick TRaining agency.

Whatever your reason I think you were setup. This is not a poll just a trap for the fatefully duped.

 

[GDI]

:doctor:
Not that I am attempting to be a sh&#*^ disturber here but I believe we all agree, at least 97.5%, that the instructor is the one who has the most impact on the quality of student and for that matter the industry as a whole. I don't know what the other 2.5% of you were thinking. The bottom line here is that I agree with Mike's thread regarding the enemy. If instructors keep cranking out poor students then the industry suffers by failing to put into practice what is suppose to be taught - safety and conservation of the marine environment and GOOD diving skills. Now for those of you who continue to suggest that one agency is better than the other. I say this - the only reason one agency is larger than the other is "marketing". Again the ol' mighty dollar. Because the fact is this, when it gets down to diving the physics and physiology required for diving is all the same, standards from one agency to another may appear different but they still can't change the science behind the dive. Most agency all have the same base level of standards.They attempt to disguise the standards by variences that really don't change the basics of good diving skills. The Instructor makes or breaks a good student. So hats off to those instructors who care to take the time and will say "NO you are not ready yet" to their students wanting a certification card.

 

[Walter]

If only it were so simple.

A good instructor will teach a good course even if his agency is horrible.

OTOH, how did he become a good instructor? If the agency is horrible, chances are they produce few good instructors.

The agency sets the tone, if that tone is one of excellence, you'll see instructors improve over time. If that tone is one of rush them through, quality doesn't matter, you'll see more and more corners cut.

Instructors and agencies are too closely related for such a cut and dry choice.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Walter has a valid point. Speaking for myself, if I am a good instructor (I'll leave that to others to decide) I won't give the credit for it to any agency. much of my learning has been more like unlearning and relearning. I would say the same for the most important parts of my diving education. My exposure to technical and especially cave diving was a big boost. Prior to that I did dive with a bunch who could stay off the bottom but still much was lacking. Once I got to a certain point my recreational diving educators were a roadblock. They actually kept things from us. I couldn't understand their attitude when they heard I was taking a nitrox class. Now I understand though. I waisted alot of time because there was an entire worl of diving that I was totally unaware of. Also, out of ignorance, I didn't do very well by my early students. I tought what I was tought how I was tought. The scarry thing is that could have gone on fore ever and it does for some.

 

[mddolson]

Walter stated:"The agency sets the tone, if that tone is one of excellence, you'll see instructors improve over time. If that tone is one of rush them through, quality doesn't matter, you'll see more and more corners cut."

Well said.

MikeD