Info Published Standards for SSI, SDI, and PADI "solo" courses

[CWK]

I have a Padi Self Reliant certification and my course was taught by a Padi CD. Two open water dives in which I led and navigated, but with the instructor following me around. Assigned tasks included navigating back to a specified point, deploying the pony, inflating the smb and getting back on the boat with 50 bar in the tank.

I also have a SDI solo certification taught by a SDI instructor who is also a TDI Tech Instructor Trainer. Two solo dives in which I had to keep above a specified bottom and maintain specified depths, navigate to specified landmarks and photograph them for proof of having navigated correctly, inflate my smb at a specified dive time and at a specified location, which was observed by the instructor on land. I wasn’t asked to deploy my pony. I presume that this was because the instructor was previously my TDI AN/DP instructor and was well aware that I could deploy a pony.

In my opinion the SDI training is far better than Padi.

 

[tursiops]

I have a Padi Self Reliant certification and my course was taught by a Padi CD. Two open water dives in which I led and navigated, but with the instructor following me around. Assigned tasks included navigating back to a specified point, deploying the pony, inflating the smb and getting back on the boat with 50 bar in the tank.

PADI requires three -- not two -- open water dives for Self-Reliant. Your instructor needs some retraining.

 

[CWK]

PADI requires three -- not two -- open water dives for Self-Reliant. Your instructor needs some retraining.

No my instructor does not need retraining. It is my memory that is faulty. By happy happenstance, the trip to Phuket for my Padi Self Reliant course was the first trip after buying my Perdix in preparation for technical training. My Shearwater log shows that I had 7 dives in Phuket, 4 on the first day and 3 on the second.

Padi requires 100 logged dives for the self reliant course. I had a total of over 500 dives at that time, but was returning to diving after a 20 year hiatus and I did not have a log showing 100 dives. My instructor said that was not a problem given that I had been certified for some 30 years at that time, but I had to do an initial day of 4 dives to show competency in diving. Therefore the 3 dives on the second day must have been the 3 dives for the self reliant course. A jpg of my log is attached. The log shows that my last dive was number 1,248 and I'm quite sure that there are a number of dives in there that I will have absolutely no recollection of. I apologise for erraneously stating that I had 2 dives in my self reliant course.

One other difference between Padi and SDI is that Padi accepted Spare Air as a pony (at least at the time of my course). I don't see any way that my SDI instructor would have accepted Spare Air as a pony. This brings up another difference between Padi and SDI. The SDI course included comprehensive training on gas planning. You were taught to calculate pony capacity requirements. Suffice to say that there was no such training in the Padi course.

 

[tursiops]

No my instructor does not need retraining. It is my memory that is faulty. By happy happenstance, the trip to Phuket for my Padi Self Reliant course was the first trip after buying my Perdix in preparation for technical training. My Shearwater log shows that I had 7 dives in Phuket, 4 on the first day and 3 on the second.

Padi requires 100 logged dives for the self reliant course. I had a total of over 500 dives at that time, but was returning to diving after a 20 year hiatus and I did not have a log showing 100 dives. My instructor said that was not a problem given that I had been certified for some 30 years at that time, but I had to do an initial day of 4 dives to show competency in diving. Therefore the 3 dives on the second day must have been the 3 dives for the self reliant course. A jpg of my log is attached. The log shows that my last dive was number 1,248 and I'm quite sure that there are a number of dives in there that I will have absolutely no recollection of. I apologise for erraneously stating that I had 2 dives in my self reliant course.

One other difference between Padi and SDI is that Padi accepted Spare Air as a pony (at least at the time of my course). I don't see any way that my SDI instructor would have accepted Spare Air as a pony. This brings up another difference between Padi and SDI. The SDI course included comprehensive training on gas planning. You were taught to calculate pony capacity requirements. Suffice to say that there was no such training in the Padi course.

CW that's backwards. SDI accepts SpareAir but PADI never has.

 

[CWK]

CW that's backwards. SDI accepts SpareAir but PADI never has.

No. The pony I used in my self reliant course was a Spare Air.

After my SDI solo course, there were no spare AL40 tanks available for me to use on a recreational dive as they were being used for tech dives. My SDI instructor refused to let me use a Spare Air, which I had at that time, for a solo dive dive even though I had already passed the SDI solo course. In fact, my SDI instructor was insistent that only an AL40 was suitable for use as a pony. I don't follow that line of thinking and use an AL19 for my pony.

 

[Rob9876]

No. The pony I used in my self reliant course was a Spare Air.

After my SDI solo course, there were no spare AL40 tanks available for me to use on a recreational dive as they were being used for tech dives. My SDI instructor refused to let me use a Spare Air, which I had at that time, for a solo dive dive even though I had already passed the SDI solo course. In fact, my SDI instructor was insistent that only an AL40 was suitable for use as a pony. I don't follow that line of thinking and use an AL19 for my pony.

That's just your instructor's policy. I took SDI Solo and just checked my copy and paste notes from the SDI Solo course book, and it says that redundancy can be by: "fitting a single cylinder with a H or Y valve, carrying a pony bottle filled with suitable backgas, using dual cylinders with an isolation valve manifold, carrying a spare air."

 

[CWK]

That's just your instructor's policy. I took SDI Solo and just checked my copy and paste notes from the SDI Solo course book, and it says that redundancy can be by: "fitting a single cylinder with a H or Y valve, carrying a pony bottle filled with suitable backgas, using dual cylinders with an isolation valve manifold, carrying a spare air."

If you look at my posts, I said that my SDI instructor wouldn’t have accepted the Spare Air as a pony but didn’t say anything about standards. So yes, instructors policy, but perhaps more than just that. The SDI course teaches you to calculate minimum gas requirements for the pony based on your planned dive drpth.

From memory, based on my own air consumption, I will need a very minimum of 6 cu ft of air to get to the surface for a dive with a planned max depth of 40m. For a time, I was using an Al6 as my pony before moving on to my present Al19. Back in the day, Spare Air did not have a 6 cu ft model. Their largest model at that time was 3 cu ft. Perhaps standards have changed over time?

 

[Zef]

23.8 Required Equipment
1. Basic open water scuba equipment as described in section three of this manual with exception of a safe second, or octopus, is not allowed as a redundant air source.
2. One of the following must be used to provide an additional independent regulator attached to an air source: pony cylinder, twin cylinders with isolation, H-valve, independent doubles, or SpareAir™

SDI seems to have an interesting perspective on required equipment. They seem more concerned with a redundant source of air delivery (2 X 1st stages on an H-valve) instead of an actual redundant air source.

SMH

-Z

 

[tursiops]

This thread is about the standards. SDI explicitly -- from the beginning -- has allowed SpareAir. What size pony you need from 100 feet is a good calculation, but a SpareAir is OK from at least shallow depths. The Catch-22 is that SDI gives the instructor the freedom to exceed standards, so if the instructor doesn't want you to use a SpareAir, or a 6 cuft, or even a 19, so be it. PADI, on the other hand, is not so explicit; they just say, "Redundant gas source – pony cylinder, twin cylinders with isolation valve or sidemount configuration. Redundant gas supply must be configured so that the diver can access it with one hand." It is up to the instructor to work with the student on appropriate sizes. I've taught both classes; I have not accepted SpareAir in either class. My approach was to work out with the student -- based on their SAC -- a worst case scenario from a max depth scenario, and take the next larger cylinder. That nearly always meant a 19 for shallower dives, a 30 for some, and a 40 cu ft for solo to 40m.

 

[Wookie]

This thread is about the standards. SDI explicitly -- from the beginning -- has allowed SpareAir. What size pony you need from 100 feet is a good calculation, but a SpareAir is OK from at least shallow depths. The Catch-22 is that SDI gives the instructor the freedom to exceed standards, so if the instructor doesn't want you to use a SpareAir, or a 6 cuft, or even a 19, so be it. PADI, on the other hand, is not so explicit; they just say, "Redundant gas source – pony cylinder, twin cylinders with isolation valve or sidemount configuration. Redundant gas supply must be configured so that the diver can access it with one hand." It is up to the instructor to work with the student on appropriate sizes. I've taught both classes; I have not accepted SpareAir in either class. My approach was to work out with the student -- based on their SAC -- a worst case scenario from a max depth scenario, and take the next larger cylinder. That nearly always meant a 19 for shallower dives, a 30 for some, and a 40 cu ft for solo to 40m.

Interesting.

I allowed the use of any size cylinder, as long as it was a completely redundant air cylinder. We would calculate how long it took to perform a normal ascent from 40M, and use SAC or RMV to calculate how much gas the diver would need for a normal ascent from depth. As you say, usually a 19 or a 30.

But I left the decision to the diver, while carefully watching their decision. I dive with a 13. I make one breath while basically performing a CESA when out of gas, and I have bailed out from depth twice because I had to. Never from 40M, never requiring deco, but still.

Safety stops are mostly for safety, and when you’re out of air, unnecessary, but just getting to 15 feet with my one breath allows lots of time at 15 feet to unscrew oneself. Certainly more than 3 minutes for the calm diver.

And that’s my evaluation of the diver. Do I think they will stay calm and think when the SHTF, in which case 13 is plenty? Or will they turn inside out, in which case 40 isn’t enough?