PST Tanks...Still Worth Buying???

[ddmattos]

Hmmm, Ken I know you are typically very well informed with this sort of thing, but Im not sure this post is accurate? Is it? I thought, and I could be wrong, that a tank can still be filled if within Hydro and that the exemption renewall is for continued Hydro's - not usage.

Can you post a link clarifying your point?

DOT-SP9791 ... On page 13 it states:

"No person may use or apply this special permit, including display of its number, when this special perm it has expired or is otherwise no longer in effect."

As far as I know we need the special permit to use and transport cylinder. Will you be able to get fills? Probably since many fill stations just look at the Hydro date and don't even know what a DOT-SP number represents or do a lookup..

 

[manni-yunk]

DOT-SP9791 ... On page 13 it states:

"No person may use or apply this special permit, including display of its number, when this special perm it has expired or is otherwise no longer in effect."

As far as I know we need the special permit to use and transport cylinder. Will you be able to get fills? Probably since many fill stations just look at the Hydro date and don't even know what a DOT-SP number represents or do a lookup..

Im not an expert - but I disagree again. I was under the impression that the special permit has nothing to do with usage? Its about DOT regs which have to do with transportation of cylinders for commercial (non personal) use. Am I wrong?

In other words - one would "USE" the permit to be allowed to transport the cylinder within DOT regulations. It has nothing to do with the filling or useae of the actual cylinder itself. As long as the Hydro test is preformed before the expiration date on the permit - then the cylinder itself can still be filled and dove.

Again -Im open to being wrong on this but that is how it was explained to me.

 

[rhwestfall]

from what I have heard (and it all might be untrue) DOT regulates commercial - so a shop couldn't, a charter couldn't, a resort couldn't, an instructor couldn't, but an individual?????

anyhow, it all seems moot as there are recent threads indicating "all is well" (at least for a few more years - eh Chugwhump?)

 

[manni-yunk]

DOT-SP9791 ... On page 13 it states:

"No person may use or apply this special permit, including display of its number, when this special perm it has expired or is otherwise no longer in effect."

As far as I know we need the special permit to use and transport cylinder. Will you be able to get fills? Probably since many fill stations just look at the Hydro date and don't even know what a DOT-SP number represents or do a lookup..

Im not an expert - but I disagree again. I was under the impression that the special permit has nothing to do with usage? Its about DOT regs which have to do with transportation of cylinders for commercial (non personal) use. Am I wrong?

One would USE the permit to allow the hydro. But a hydro'd tank itself would not be limited from filling or diving after the excemption expires. At least thats how I read it.

 

[ddmattos]

from what I have heard (and it all might be untrue) DOT regulates commercial - so a shop couldn't, a charter couldn't, a resort couldn't, an instructor couldn't, but an individual?????

anyhow, it all seems moot as there are recent threads indicating "all is well" (at least for a few more years - eh Chugwhump?)

I was just going to respond in kind. Hopefully a DOT person could chime in.

Im not an expert - but I disagree again. I was under the impression that the special permit has nothing to do with usage? Its about DOT regs which have to do with transportation of cylinders for commercial (non personal) use. Am I wrong?

See above.

So you can use it, but you should not be able to get it filled from a commercial entity.

Now I hope they renew DOT-SP 14157 for XS Scuba/Worthington in a timely matter since it expires 2/28/15.
I called Worthington today and was told a Shay Steward was in charge of special permits. I left a message.

EDIT: Additional question.
manni-yunk
Hydro is required by DOT. Special Permits are required by DOT. Why don't shops just ignore both with the above logic?

 

[manni-yunk]

I was just going to respond in kind. Hopefully a DOT person could chime in.



See above.





So you can use it, but you should not be able to get it filled from a commercial entity.

Now I hope they renew DOT-SP 14157 for XS Scuba/Worthington in a timely matter since it expires 2/28/15.
I called Worthington today and was told a Shay Steward was in charge of special permits. I left a message.

I believe this is all a dead point since the latest is that it is being renewed but the only limitation would be in commercially transporting the tank, and not in the filling of it. Who knows, who cares. I know that its getting renewed so it doesnt matter. I also know that local fill stations will fill a tank within 5 years of last hydro......Thats all that matters.


Plus.....I fill all my tanks myself, so Im less concerned.

 

[a878bob]

Worthington is a done deal, it was applied for in November, and we should see it on the books shortly.

 

[rjack321]

I believe this is all a dead point since the latest is that it is being renewed but the only limitation would be in commercially transporting the tank, and not in the filling of it. Who knows, who cares. I know that its getting renewed so it doesnt matter. I also know that local fill stations will fill a tank within 5 years of last hydro......Thats all that matters.


Plus.....I fill all my tanks myself, so Im less concerned.

Commerce. noun. 1. an interchange of goods or commodities, especially on a large scale between different countries (foreign commerce) or between different parts of the same country (domestic commerce) trade; business.

Tanks with expired special permits are not legal in "commerce". Thus, they cannot be re-hydroed, they cannot be filled for money (ie no paid shop fills), they cannot be transported with more than a few psi by a commercial carrier (transport for money - which never really happens with scuba tanks anyway as they are hazmat). They probably cannot be used for commercial diving (this is a bit of a stretch). Shop fills where money exchanges hands are definitely commerce, but there are no scuba police who are going to swoop down and fine anyone over it. The only way that would happen is if a tank were to somehow hurt someone (rare but it happens). In that case insurance companies would start to balk at paying the injured/deceased before the DOT tank inspectors and their metallurgical contractors even finished picking up the pieces.

Tanks with expired permits can be transported by private individuals or filled at home.

 

[Chugwhump]

When in the hell do all you "government reg reading" wonks actually have time for diving?
Are you all iced in up to your butts or something?
This PST hysteria must drive people in DOT, PSI, and a few other place "Plumb loco", every few years.
Just relax.
The sun will come up.
The sun will set.
It will happen again, and those PST tanks are not going anywhere.

Chug
Thinking it is a bad thing when the rational one in ANY crowd.

 

[drbill]

Yep, I have heard reports that the PST exemption is being refiled (although perhaps it won't e in place before the old one expires)