Protect Lake Pleasant

[Basil_AZ]

John,

Mr. Finch did not bid on the second marina. He was prohibited from doing so by the County, illegally. And yes if they are going to ram a new marina down our throats then he believes it is in everyone's best interest that he win that bid as he can then take measures, as he has done with his current marina contract, to protect the lake. As it stands, Mr. Finch has the legal right to add hundreds of new slips to his marina under his current contract with the MWD. He has chosen not to do so because he does not think it wise to add more boats on the lake. Like I've repeatedly stated, NO ONE can accuse Mr. Finch or our coalition of hypocrisy.

John what I am trying to impress upon you and everyone is that the Coalition's methods and goals will do more to protect the lake than any other person or group has done or may do. However, if you have a better idea then please share it with me.

Let me give you an example about our methods. If Mr. Finch had not been prohibited from bidding on the new marina then we would not have any legal standing to stop the new marina by suing the county and BOR for operating an illegal bid. But now some on here come along and say 'oh he shouldn't have even tried to bid on that marina if he doesn't want it'. But then we wouldn't have the legal ammunition to prevent it from being developed. When fighting the government you better be prepared to use all legal means to fight your cause and we are. People like Garrett would perfer that we simply carry signs and write letters complaining about the new marina. We, on the other hand, are prepared to fight the county and feds in the courts and because we took the steps we took we actually have a good chance of stopping the new marina.

 

[Charles R]

What I think is that you should stop posting as you have already made your point clear that you want a legal Bid so that the current marina owner has the right to bid as well as do the proper studies but when you first presented this and as you website reads you want to "protect the lake" from what Politicians. Are you an attorney I have this strange feeling that you are and your salary is paid partially by the current marina owner As you have been asked several times on this board to post who you are and you wont. :no

 

[Basil_AZ]

Charles, again you are missing the point. I wonder if some of you aren't diving too deep, lol...

First, If Maricopa County is forced to do a legal bid it is highly unlikely that they will proceed with a new marina. Secondly, if the BOR is forced to follow the law they will have to do an EIS, which will likely determine that a new marina would have a significant impact thus killing the development of a new marina.

If you want to stop the Marina then the steps we are taking and the law suits we have filed are the absolute best actions any coalition could take to have a real chance of winning. Do you disagree?

No I am not an attorney. I thought about law school but decided to keep my soul (JOKE! Lawyers please don't write me now, lol).

 

[shark.byte.usa]

You may have no problems with being a hypocrite but our coalition does.

I'm the hypocrite? I'm not trying to conceal any motives.

*********************

During one of the bidding processes Mr. Finch won the bid by more than double of the next bid. Was he awarded the contract? No. Instead they went to a second round of bidding and awarded it to a man who, this time, had a slightly higher bid.

Mr. Finch did not bid on the second marina.

*********************

Maricopa County is attempting to add a new marina – Scorpion Bay Marina – to an already overcrowded lake. Approval of this marina will make Lake Pleasant even more dangerous – even more congested – and even Less Pleasant!

if the law is followed, the bidding process is fair and legal, the BOR does an EIS and a FONSI is issued then we will welcome the new Marina to the lake.

*********************

Perhaps some of your teminology and acronyms I'm not familiar with, but I clearly understand your legal strategy for stopping the current Marina, it's the disguise of protecting the lake I have issue with. You've not been straight forward with us from the onset, nor do I think you website is. I believe your coalition to be the hypocritical one. I don't have issue with your legal methods to stop the marina, I have issue with your deception to foster support. I think we get your point, not sure you get ours.

And if you'd like to continue using my name as a punchline within your condescending remarks be my guest I have thick skin, at least do myself and the rest of us the respect of revealing yourself and your postion within the coalition and motives and not hiding behind your username as has been previously asked of you several times and ignored. For all we know you could be a PR guy living in Illinois.

Garrett Davis, Web Developer
Peoria, AZ.
Lake Pleasant Diver

 

[Basil_AZ]

Garrett, I have no intentions of playing your games. You wrote: "I'm the hypocrite? I'm not trying to conceal any motives."

How do we know that? You claim to support our cause and then spend your time attacking me and denigrating my motives. I do now question your motives. You say you understand our strategy which, if successful, will be the only action that will protect Lake Pleasant. But if you understood our strategy you would be joining our cause not trashing our motives.

And you are right, I do not get your point - it is conspiratorial, illogical and sophistic. It assumes that our coalition has ulterior motives because we have received financing from the owner of the current marina. That assumes that Mr. Finch does not care about his livelihood. No one cares more about protecting the lake than Mr. Finch and I take great objection at your nasty implications simply because you think he stands to gain more profit if he owns another marina. Mr. Finch honestly doesn't think the way you do - he believes that a second marina will make conditions at the lake more dangerous and will hurt his business. Instead of helping him with this fight you have chosen to embrace the ridiculous logic of the men who are illegally developing the second marina. And you wonder why I question your motives?

I have been upfront and honest with you from the beginning. I have explained my motive for coming to this board. I have explained that I am a member of the Coalition. That is absolutely sufficient because, as I said in my second post, the only thing that matters is the merit of my claims. How funny that you have not objected to those claims. How interesting that you continuously make snide remarks about everyone's motives. Not just mine but the coalitions and Mr. Finch's. Well enough is enough. If you cannot debate the merits of our arguments or even the opposition’s arguments then you are just wasting everyone’s time, unless that is your objective?

Are you merely playing the troll?

 

[GreenDiverDown]

I think the mods should move this thread to the Arizona Scuba Forum... they're a very scrapy bunch.

Basil.. would you share with us your name, please?

 

[AZTEK DIVER]

Garrett, I have no intentions of playing your games. You wrote: "I'm the hypocrite? I'm not trying to conceal any motives."

How do we know that? You claim to support our cause and then spend your time attacking me and denigrating my motives. I do now question your motives. You say you understand our strategy which, if successful, will be the only action that will protect Lake Pleasant. But if you understood our strategy you would be joining our cause not trashing our motives.

And you are right, I do not get your point - it is conspiratorial, illogical and sophistic. It assumes that our coalition has ulterior motives because we have received financing from the owner of the current marina. That assumes that Mr. Finch does not care about his livelihood. No one cares more about protecting the lake than Mr. Finch and I take great objection at your nasty implications simply because you think he stands to gain more profit if he owns another marina. Mr. Finch honestly doesn't think the way you do - he believes that a second marina will make conditions at the lake more dangerous and will hurt his business. Instead of helping him with this fight you have chosen to embrace the ridiculous logic of the men who are illegally developing the second marina. And you wonder why I question your motives?

I have been upfront and honest with you from the beginning. I have explained my motive for coming to this board. I have explained that I am a member of the Coalition. That is absolutely sufficient because, as I said in my second post, the only thing that matters is the merit of my claims. How funny that you have not objected to those claims. How interesting that you continuously make snide remarks about everyone's motives. Not just mine but the coalitions and Mr. Finch's. Well enough is enough. If you cannot debate the merits of our arguments or even the opposition’s arguments then you are just wasting everyone’s time, unless that is your objective?

Are you merely playing the troll?

If this is the way you try to get support, I don't think you have a chance in hell. Did you by chance use to work for Slick Willie, (I did not have sex with that woman)

 

[scubajcf]

Garrett, I have no intentions of playing your games. You wrote: "I'm the hypocrite? I'm not trying to conceal any motives."

How do we know that? You claim to support our cause and then spend your time attacking me and denigrating my motives. I do now question your motives. You say you understand our strategy which, if successful, will be the only action that will protect Lake Pleasant. But if you understood our strategy you would be joining our cause not trashing our motives.

And you are right, I do not get your point - it is conspiratorial, illogical and sophistic. It assumes that our coalition has ulterior motives because we have received financing from the owner of the current marina. That assumes that Mr. Finch does not care about his livelihood. No one cares more about protecting the lake than Mr. Finch and I take great objection at your nasty implications simply because you think he stands to gain more profit if he owns another marina. Mr. Finch honestly doesn't think the way you do - he believes that a second marina will make conditions at the lake more dangerous and will hurt his business. Instead of helping him with this fight you have chosen to embrace the ridiculous logic of the men who are illegally developing the second marina. And you wonder why I question your motives?

I have been upfront and honest with you from the beginning. I have explained my motive for coming to this board. I have explained that I am a member of the Coalition. That is absolutely sufficient because, as I said in my second post, the only thing that matters is the merit of my claims. How funny that you have not objected to those claims. How interesting that you continuously make snide remarks about everyone's motives. Not just mine but the coalitions and Mr. Finch's. Well enough is enough. If you cannot debate the merits of our arguments or even the opposition’s arguments then you are just wasting everyone’s time, unless that is your objective?

Are you merely playing the troll?

To the nameless lobbyist named Basil_AZ:

You know, I was going to stay out of this until you attacked Garrett. I've been involved in politics, one way or the other, most of my adult life. On this board, I am a diver like everyone else. I know your kind and I know your tactics. It's a game of tenacity. Garrett is no more a troll than anyone else who has answered your call for politcal action. You have entered a community, asked for support and now you attack the very people you solicited when they are merely asking questions to better understand your cause. This is not right. Garrett is an upstanding participant and long time member of this community. This is not a political bulletin board. This is a bulletin board full of divers. We don't always agree on things. And, that's OK. But, you can't sit here and make "trolling" accusations to these folks when you are the new guy on the block with a single-minded agenda. Your only posts have been in this "now turned political" forum and have no relevance to the diving community or substance to the environmental issues surrounding lake pleasant. We don't know your first name, your last name or if you give one crap about the local scuba community. In my respectful opinion, you're not welcome in our community. If you want to protect Lake Pleasant, talk about the environmental impact of this new marina to our community -- not over the fact that a current marina owner wants to protect his monopoly -- legally or illegally. I think you owe Garrett an apology.

SBers - you have an opinion about everything. So if you agree with me. Speak up!.

 

[scubajcf]

.... because we have received financing from the owner of the current marina.
..... Mr. Finch honestly doesn't think the way you do - he believes that a second marina will make conditions at the lake more dangerous and will hurt his business.

/////////

 

[GreenDiverDown]

SBers - you have an opinion about everything. So if you agree with me. Speak up!.

I say we crank it up a notch!