pros and cons of hydro test not at LDS?

[jd50i]

Way more information than I imagined, thank you everyone. Looks like I'll have it tested at the fire equipment place and VIPed at the LDS and look into inspecting myself later.
I did find out the LDS does their own hydro so they do not send out.

 

[broncobowsher]

SS...

I'm pretty sure it does...at least here in North America...and if every one who services cylinders in North America is instructed/certified by...and follows the protocols established by these two agencies...with no deviations...we're in pretty good hands...

It will keep the end users safe...and most importantly the fill station operators safe...who are also required to be certified to be able to operate the fill equipment safely and able to identify cylinder condition/stamped information/manufacturer hazard warning labels...as well as information contained on an annual VIP sticker...

As well as the above...the fill station operator is required to be instructed/certified to be able to perform accurate and safe gas blending protocols...if so required...

Any shop who is known to be cutting corners for what ever reason...should be reported to the agenices they represent...and have their certifications revoked...

There are lots of North American Scuba Industry standards...lots of training instuction requirements...lots of certifications...

W...

Required by who? What certificate is required?

 

[JackD342]

In the US, high pressure air is hazmat, and OSHA regulations require periodic training and safe procedures.

 

[Scared Silly]

SS...

and if every one who services cylinders in North America is instructed/certified by...and follows the protocols established by these two agencies...with no deviations...we're in pretty good hands...

For a fact I can say that the protocols of these two agencies do not get followed. The generic sticker you posted is a blatant example. And because of that, is why there is no scuba industry standard. We may all want there to be one, but the bottomline there is not. The best example is filling a cylindered with banked NITROX that is not O2 clean. Note I did not say Premixed NITROX as there is no such thing. NITROX by its very definition is a mix of nitrogen and oxygen. One either fills a cylinder with NITROX or fills it with oxygen and then air (or another gas). Using the term Premixed NITROX is like saying you are going make a cake with a premixed cake mix.

All of this discussion is pedantic but it goes back to my initial point, when it comes to filling cylinders the scuba industry has no industry standard and is not able to self regulate.

 

[W W Meixner]

Required by who? What certificate is required?

BB/SS/Others...

In Canada it's included as a component of the Pressure Vessels Act and Act and Regulations respecting the Federal Ministry of Transportation...and the TSSA...the Technical Standards and Safety Authority...Jack has given you your answer for the US...Western World countries...UK/Germany...others...have similar Legislation...

Further...in Canada...both the Pressure Vessels Act...and PSI...require periodic re-certification...re-hydro certification requires re-certification from scratch every 36 months...and re-hydro facility employment is required...

SDI/TDI VIP certification...was offering a lifetime certification with no re-certification required...this is no longer the case...

I believe...this puts this subject to rest...those of you who do not have service certifications but think you know all the answers should do youselves a favour...and take the courses...or at the very least...buy the training manuals...and review the regulated standards for your particular geographical jurisdictions...check your Government Book Stores...or on line......there is lots to learn...

In Canada...any of the above certifications can be revoked by the Governing Body...and or certifying body if investigations by these bodies has determined non-compliance...in Canada...fines can also be levied by the Governing Body...upon conviction...per count...as high as $250,000.

The OP has his answer...further bantering is not required...

W...

 

[JackD342]

For a fact I can say that the protocols of these two agencies do not get followed. The generic sticker you posted is a blatant example. And because of that, is why there is no scuba industry standard. We may all want there to be one, but the bottomline there is not. The best example is filling a cylindered with banked NITROX that is not O2 clean. Note I did not say Premixed NITROX as there is no such thing. NITROX by its very definition is a mix of nitrogen and oxygen. One either fills a cylinder with NITROX or fills it with oxygen and then air (or another gas). Using the term Premixed NITROX is like saying you are going make a cake with a premixed cake mix.

All of this discussion is pedantic but it goes back to my initial point, when it comes to filling cylinders the scuba industry has no industry standard and is not able to self regulate.

Sounds like you may have too high a bar set - expecting standards to be 100% in use as standard practice. Even if there is a huge variety of real world practice, if an incident were to occur which called into question a visual inspection of a cylinder in a court of law, you REALLY want to be able to show current training by and adherence to standards such as PSI/PCI, including annual inspections that are “industry standards” although not law. Same weight attaches to CGA publications.

One other note: sometimes folks cite how “the fill operator just took a quick look inside while I stood there.” That does NOT mean that was an actual inspection. If you bring me a completely empty tank with a 6 month old VIP sticker, I should check inside to be sure there is no water before I fill, but a full VIP may not be warranted.

 

[Scared Silly]

Sounds like you may have too high a bar set - expecting standards to be 100% in use as standard practice. Even if there is a huge variety of real world practice, if an incident were to occur which called into question a visual inspection of a cylinder in a court of law, you REALLY want to be able to show current training by and adherence to standards such as PSI/PCI, including annual inspections that are “industry standards” although not law. Same weight attaches to CGA publications.

Not really trying to set a high bar because as you note there is huge variety of real world practice. But I agree about current training by and adherence to standards such as PSI/PCI or TDI/SDI. However, when there is a practice that is known to contradict well known standards yet many shops practice it one has got to wonder.

WWM - you are conflating the requalification with the annual inspections. Yes there are some basic things to learn but many shops fail to so at best or willing ignore at worse.

 

[2airishuman]

Thread drift. ::shrug::

There is no basis in law, fact, regulation, or history for the idea that it is necessary to perform an annual inspection to the same standards as the visual portion of the 5-year requalification ("hydro") required by the USDOT. We owe the insistence on an annual VIP to the rupture of three steel 72 cubic foot cylinders in the 1970s. The cylinders had been partially filled with sea water due to the then-standard practice of breathing a cylinder until it is completely empty before surfacing from a dive. They corroded and failed. The annual visual inspection was originally just a quick look inside the cylinder to see whether this type of obvious corrosion had occurred since the last 5-year requalification ("hydro").

PSI came along and put together a much more rigorous inspection program for the paranoid and lawsuit averse. It is based not on looking for evidence that new corrosion since the last requalification ("hydro") was completed, but rather performing a new inspection, ab initio, to the same standard as the requalification except for the hydrostatic portion of the test (which all but a few dive shops cannot perform as they do not have the equipment).

There is no evidence that this improves safety, let alone any evidence that 12 months is the best interval to use. (Why not six months? 24 months? 30 months so it is midway between hydros?)

As for the language on the stickers, well, PSI and the like are protecting their business model and trying to help their customers (dive shops) deflect the blame in the event an accident should occur.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

It also doesn’t hurt that it generates revenue...

 

[michael-fisch]

It also doesn’t hurt that it generates revenue...

Just like the police car over the rise with his speed gun, and just as useful.

Michael