Proper Nitrox ID

[Dive-aholic]

A proper VIP requires all stickers be removed from a cylinder. Without removal you cannot properly inspect the cylinder and pass it. Even if the sticker looks to be in good shape, all it takes is a small slit or pinhole that I don't notice to allow water under the sticker. If it's salt water then corrosion can happen. I've bought used cylinders off ebay in the past that have 15+ years worth of VIP stickers on them. Those haven't been properly VIPed in that long.

As for Nitrox wrap stickers being a requirement - absolutely not. It is a shop thing. The sticker doesn't mean a thing. The only sticker that means anything is the VIP sticker which indicates whether the cylinder was serviced and VIPed in accordance with O2 standards or not. And that sticker only tells you what the cylinder was on the day the VIP was done. There's nothing to keep a cylinder owner from getting a "dirty" fill in an O2 clean cylinder and not reporting it. While shops should be looking at the VIP stickers and ensuring they don't fill O2 serviced cylinders with non-OCA (oxygen compatible air) this doesn't always happen. This is why they only cylinders I will partial pressure blend are ones in which I trust the customer and know the history of the cylinder. Otherwise it gets banked or continuous blended mixes.

 

[Scared Silly]

should have a vip sticker stating tank is O2 clean if partial pressure method is done to fill with nitrox..If banked O2 cleaning usually not necessary.

Yeah (If banked O2) not necessary if willing to get yer self slapped by a fine or otherwise. Yeah sure lots of places get away with it but as a friend said we all do dumb things and most of the time we get away with it but when we don't we are usually dead or worse*. In this case though it will probably be the poor sap filling the cylinder rather than the cylinder owner.

*Worse as in drinking yer beer through a straw and not being able to wipe yer own butt.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Since we are a PADI shop we tend to operate on the basis of what we teach in the enriched air course, which is that cylinders being used for enriched air should have a 6" (or 4" depending on cylinder color) green / yellow nitrox wrap, AND an enriched air VIP sticker (and a contents sticker for that matter). Generally, we will not fill cylinders with enriched air which only have the nitrox VIP sticker, and not the wrap. That has caused some consternation with a couple of customers, but it is our practice for better or worse.

Private businesses are certainly entitled to do whatever foolish things they like, but following PADI's suggestion here is arguably unsafe (and not just because it causes you to do a flawed, non-compliant VIP to save your customers $6). It's hard to blame divers who get annoyed when your shop suggests they need anything except prominent MOD markings, analysis tape, and a VIP sticker somewhere unobtrusive.

 

[Peter_C]

Before I got my compressor, I had purchased a bunch of stickers, and planned to turn them into magnetic signs on my tanks so they would be easily removable the rest of the time. Although I gotta say on the North Coast the high vis yellow does make a dive buddy more visible.

 

[oly5050user]

Yeah (If banked O2) not necessary if willing to get yer self slapped by a fine or otherwise. Yeah sure lots of places get away with it but as a friend said we all do dumb things and most of the time we get away with it but when we don't we are usually dead or worse*. In this case though it will probably be the poor sap filling the cylinder rather than the cylinder owner.

*Worse as in drinking yer beer through a straw and not being able to wipe yer own butt.

What are you talking about??? If a facility has banked nitrox , lets say 32%, then O2 cleaning not necessary. This way 100% O2 is never introduced into the tank. If partial pressure method is used to create nitrox THEN tank must be O2 clean..

 

[WB2GLP]

i doubt anyone knows the right answer,....

CAUTION: This could make your head spin http://phmsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/PHMSA/Interpretations/2011/110175.pdf

 

[Rick Murchison]

CAUTION: This could make your head spin http://phmsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/PHMSA/Interpretations/2011/110175.pdf

Falls under the category "If there's a chance you won't like the answer, don't ask the question."
Once again, the bureaucrats pole vault over mouse droppings.
Rick

 

[kelemvor]

Heh.. so, if I read that correctly, the government doesn't require require special cleaning even for 100% o2 in steel - only aluminum

Hopefully nobody thinks because it's not required by law that it's not required at all.

It also sounds like a tank with anything over 23.5% requires special markings. I bet these aren't covered by the standard "nitrox" stickers.



I've never seen any scuba tanks with the proper stickers on them.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Heh.. so, if I read that correctly, the government doesn't require require special cleaning even for 100% o2 in steel - only aluminum ...

Well, now, that certainly seems to be the case in the cited CFR.... however, ye can bet yer bippy steel tanks are covered elsewhere, if you search, or ask (don't!), by rules at least as wonderful.

Rick

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Anyone reading that letter needs to start with a look at CFR 171.1(d)(6): "Functions not subject to the requirements of the HMR...transportation of a hazardous material in a motor vehicle by an individual for non-commercial purposes in a private motor vehicle, including a leased or rented motor vehicle."



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