Proper hose management when using pony bottles.

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Wearing a butt load of equipment will not necessarly improve your safety.

I think that a lot of eager, intermediate-level, divers at some point end up looking like this. I certainly did. There's a distinct temptation to keep adding to your configuration - each step justified on the grounds of safety - until you do end up as the dreaded 'christmas tree' diver.

In my case, I had a reality check caused by a freeflow in cold water at 115ft. The incident was harder to manage... much more stressful.... because of the immense clutter that I had draped myself with. That object lesson kick-started a serious review of my kit which lead, inevitably, to a much more minimalist and clean configuration.

Only later, when I entered into technical diving training, did I encounter a formalized justification for clean, minimalist equipment approach (Google: 'Hogarthian'). By that time it made perfect sense... luckily I didn't get hurt during the time preceding that education.

When putting together your scuba rig, and selecting what you will purchase and carry on dives, it is important to consider performance under the worst case scenarios. In doing so, you must place an emphasis on your psychological state during an emergency, coupled with the negative repercussions that an overload of messy equipment will have on your fluidity of response - especially where equipment familiarity and ease of access is reduced.

If you look towards those divers who operate in the most challenging environments and undertake the most risk-laden dives.... you'll notice a distinct trend towards K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid). Even those these divers are undeniably highly experienced, expertly trained and highly motivated towards safety - you will see that they carry the bare minimum of equipment - and that is a process of identifying necessity in relation to risk. Those divers acknowledge that it can be negative to have too many options, too much task-loading, too many distractions on a dive...
 
one thing is for sure OP... the set up in that picture is nooo good.

if u insist on having the tank on your back, I personally would move to the other side and route the hoses ober the back of your neck. that way u dont get that massive cluster of hoses trying to grab near by objects. also the only things conected to that bottle should be a low profile spg on a hose and you octo that you would remove from you primary reg. so 3 hoses on you primary tank and 2 on the pony.

its better in my opinion (and trust me i used to not think it) to just sling the pony. u put one 2nd stage on it neatly held against the tank with a bungee , and then just put a small spg made for the first stage on there. super streamline!!
 
+1 on slinging the pony, bungee the pony second stage, use an spg on a 6" hose and dump the spare air (or not, personally I would not bother with it), and I would not bother with an Octopus second stage on my primary system.

The use of DIN primaries is also a good point, much neater.

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Double post
 
I have honestly tried slinging the pony bottle on 6 of my dives this year and it did not work for me. It felt extremely awkward.
I have also tried attaching pony bottle across my lower stomach and it prevented me from having access to my weight belt which is a safety concern.

Only reason why I have my pony bottle behind me is because after doing all other configurations I managed to make it work for me.

As for DIN valves... that is a definite no no. For one I would have to upgrade all 4 of my tanks which would cost me 400-600 bucks.
My pony bottle actually has a DIN valve (with din to yoke insert) but that would require me to upgrade my first stage (which is less than 6 months old) of $150-$200

Changing my hoses would also result in spending money. I understand that some of the more seasoned divers could not envision diving with my setup but my own understanding of what I need evolves and I will probably arrive there in the future.

My pony bottle setup has my old console gauges and has my old second stage and new first stage and that in itself makes it 80% of dive setup. If I bought another BC and octo... I could have myself a second set of gear to compliment my hookah setup and my own set of gear. Taking it apart into pieces is probably not cost efficient so I am going to go ahead and use a bungee cord (as advised) to shorten my hoses on that setup.

Another thing I am going to do is swap pony over to other side. I just flipped my BC tank strap upside down which will allow me to do that.

Down the road after I assemble second set of scuba gear I am going to purchase 1st stage, shortened hose and 2nd stage to compliment my pony bottle.

I will not be switching over to DIN. I watch my dive trainer struggle with his setup (which always gets stuck after every dive) and in my 5 years of diving I see that DIN setup is not efficient unless you have your own DIN tanks. If you travel outside of country you have to rely on adapter which connects through yoke thus reducing efficiency of DIN setup just slightly.

Thank you for all your feedback. ON my next dive I will have someone take a pic of me with my camera to show changes to my setup.
 
So you are going add bungi cords and keep all the hoses and regulators and then show us some new pictures.... very cool!

Do you have any pictures of yourself while slinging the pony bottle across your belly?
 
I do not have that picture but I can describe exactly why I had an issue with slinging it.

Right when I first bought my pony bottle I already had about a year's worth of reading research from these forums on how people go about doing it. My setup is very similar to one that appeared in one of your threads a while back.
Pics borrowed from that thread:
IMG_0380.jpgPony.jpg
and used to be mounted like this:
IMG_3014.jpg
minus the bungee cord.

Problem is that I am 5ft 8in and weigh 145lbs so when I wore it it looked and felt as big as this:
100_4350.jpg

but that was not the main issue. In my case I have my video camera with me so pony used to interfere with me clipping camera back to BC when not in use, it also kind of got in the way if I ever had to reach for safe second. On top of it pony slightly offset my buoyancy. My right side would always want to sink so swimming at 10-20 degree angle got really old really fast.
 
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Seriously you need to rethink your setup. You need a primary and an Octo, that's all. If you have an air2 type of octo maybe a reg bunged to your pony so three regs at most IF you have a air2 octo.

You do not need an SPG for your pony. Just check it before you dive. If you must have this use a mini SPG that does not require a hose. You do not need a spare air, they are spare junk and serve no purpose. There are many threads documenting their failing in an emergency.
 
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If it disappears for all of us I need to wonder why it is so awkward for you. Lacking an actual picture of you in the gear we have to assume something is askew. Did you also try slinging it on the right hand side?

It's not a black and white decision in my eyes but did you remove any weight from the pony side to maintain balance. it's not essential but it can make a difference.
Along those lines are you in good trim with proper weighting? if not piling on this extra weight in the form of the pony cylinder will just exacerbate an over weight situation and you will dive like a turd.

Pete
 
I have honestly tried slinging the pony bottle on 6 of my dives this year and it did not work for me. It felt extremely awkward.

I love comments like "it did not work for me", especially where they relate to an approach which is universally adopted and taught consistently globally, and across each scuba agency. Slinging tanks does work - it works for much bigger tanks and also multiple tanks - that's why it is a universal approach for technical divers.

Might I make 2 suggestions?

1) 6 dives is probably insufficient time to get comfortable and proficient with the use of any new equipment, let alone a cumbersome redundant air cylinder.

2) Your attempts to 'teach yourself' are proving inefficient and costly. Why not invest some small time and expenditure in the appropriate training? A course such as Intro-to-Tech, Tech Basics, or even Tec40 would introduce you to the concept of diving 2-3 tanks in various configurations, and would show you effective methods to do so. It'd provide a spectrum of other benefits too. Such a course would have cost you less than your Spare Air contraption did - and unlike the Spare Air, probably won't inevitably end up in cobwebs under the stairs.

If you're insistent on the provision of ample redundant gas, you might also want to consider alternative approaches. Perhaps going to a set of doubles. In the UK, the use of small-capacity doubles (i.e twin-40's/7L tanks) has been popular for decades. If travel is a major factor then sidemount diving might be a very attractive option for you...again, with appropriately sized tanks for the dives you do.

Given your tribulations thus far, I recommend proper training as the method for learning new skills. Working it out for yourself wasn't a success. There's no stigma attached to that.... and getting the right training from the offset is a good means to lower your long-term costs, as it prevents wasted expenditure on pointless kit.

I have also tried attaching pony bottle across my lower stomach and it prevented me from having access to my weight belt which is a safety concern.

You won't see divers doing this, for many reasons. There's nothing wrong with experimentation, of course, but the configurations being suggested are tried and tested. If a particular configuration has been rejected by the scuba community, then it's probably for good reason. Ignoring the 'best practice' lessons harks towards a 'reinventing the wheel' - unnecessary.

I will not be switching over to DIN. I watch my dive trainer struggle with his setup (which always gets stuck after every dive) and in my 5 years of diving I see that DIN setup is not efficient unless you have your own DIN tanks. If you travel outside of country you have to rely on adapter which connects through yoke thus reducing efficiency of DIN setup just slightly.

Personally, seeing a 'dive trainer' struggle with basic equipment would give me serious cause for concern. Perhaps there is an underlying issue here...

DIN has pros and cons. When suggested as an improvement for your configuration, particularly the use of a pony cylinder, I am sure many people would assume that you did own your own tank/s. Not many places rent pony cylinders, so that tank at least, could be improved by conversion to DIN.

I absolutely understand the cost issues involved. That said, it's important to recognize the difference between getting things right...or throwing good money after bad. You've spent a lot of money thus far and it hasn't worked out well for you.

Right when I first bought my pony bottle I already had about a year's worth of reading research from these forums on how people go about doing it.

Again, having researched, experimented and still struggling with your configuration after many months... it may be time to consider getting some expert advice at first-hand, rather than the internet. I'd suggest a competent technical instructor (one who doesn't "struggle with DIN valves")...

Problem is that I am 5ft 8in and weigh 145lbs so when I wore it it looked and felt as big as this:

Size doesn't preclude a configuration. There's plenty of small divers who comfortably carry far more equipment than that, especially in the technical community. Technique, approach and familiarity are the issues... proper training/practical (not internet) advice is the solution.

In my case I have my video camera with me so pony used to interfere with me clipping camera back to BC when not in use, it also kind of got in the way if I ever had to reach for safe second. On top of it pony slightly offset my buoyancy. My right side would always want to sink so swimming at 10-20 degree angle got really old really fast.

You do realize that you aren't the first person to ever 'try' this? :wink:

Thousands... hundreds of thousands... of other divers manage to make it work... make it comfortable... make it safe.

Find a competent technical-level instructor and commit a day to learning from them. Allow them to help you configure and refine your equipment approach. The commit to getting comfortable with that approach in subsequent dives.

Your previous dalliances and experimentation do hark of 'excuse making', in lieu of a committed and informed approach to your equipment. It led you down a very wrong path. I think you need more than internet advice to resolve the problems you're experiencing.
 
Yes you do.

I would suggest first that you invest in DIN Valves. That will begin the streamlining process.

Having redundant first stages is great but having both behind your head AND YOKE, is simply a poor choice. Really, swop the yokes out for DIN.

You will simplify your hose routing by wearing the bailout bottle either a la north Florida cave diver or sidemounted. That way its hoses will be stowed and you will have control of the workings... Things like hand wheel. This also means you can eliminate the extra long SPG hose.

I question the validity of a spare air in a stressful situation or an OOA situation with a semi-panicked buddy... But you may have a different viewpoint on risk assessment and mitigation.

Honestly, the problem here isn't DIN or Yoke. Even if OP change out the all first stage to DIN, the hose routing still be the same. The real issue is here too many equipment, not only they don't make your dive safer, it may have effect on the negative side. Think about it, OW water recreation dive isn't nearly as dangerous as tech/cave diving. You don't see tech/cave diver use pony + spare air. So at least ditch the spare air. If thing happen, you move onto pony and end the dive.

2nd issue is you mount pony on you back in a way that you can't reach the valve. That means pony needs to be on before entering water. Now what if the valve leaks. You pony maybe empty when you need it. So sling the pony, buggie down the hose to the pony, 6"spg. Once your pny is on the front, you hose routing will improve a lot already. Also becuse it is in the front, you have have it off until you need it.

To further reduce custer, move computer onto wrist. Use 23" HP hose for SPG for back gas. And shorten your inflator hose

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This isn't a good example either. If you have to make a change, 1) shorten the primary hose length. You will never donate that anyway, why not custom it to eliminate the bow. 2)move computer to wrist. shorten the spg hose. 3) way too many things dangling. put the spool, whistle, into thigh pocket. 4)stow the light when you are not using it too.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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