Project Argonaut, totally new, vintage style DH regulator

[Eric Sedletzky]

I heard the new Mistral absolutely sucked, literally. It was like trying to suck a golf ball through a garden hose, so I heard.
They were big bucks too!

I think AL had no intention of making anything out of that new POS.
It was just a photo op and media dive shop hype, "look what we did".

 

[herman]

I heard the new Mistral absolutely sucked, literally. It was like trying to suck a golf ball through a garden hose, so I heard.
They were big bucks too!

I think AL had no intention of making anything out of that new POS.
It was just a photo op and media dive shop hype, "look what we did".

Maybe but that was a lot of money to spend on R&D to make a known flop...

I have not dove one of the new Mistrals personally but I have heard bad things about them and the design was a big part of it. The other big issue was the lack of diver training. I loaned my Phoenix to a friend once and he complained about how bad/hard it breathed. I was confused since it cracks at around 0.6 with a fairly aggresive venturi. Later while reviewing my photos of him, the reason became clear. He was wearing a jacket style BC and in one photo, through the arm holes of the BC I could see several inches of daylight between his back and the BC, worn that way, the cracking pressure had to be in the 4 to 6 inch range. That was a learning moment for me, I never loan a DH now without a proper BC and some instruction.

 

[reefrat]

I dove a borrowed RAM in the late 70's for a while and owned (and dove) another a few years ago until I tried the rebreather thing.
They are good regs but I have been saying for years that if someone could produce a truy modern new production DH that performs well I will definitely be in that!! I have a few questions that those of you may know an answer to:
Is there any chance of a mouthpiece that allows a choice of aftermarket molded mouthpieces? It seems to me that staying with the vintage style mouthpieces (which were just OK) would not be truly in keeping with the "modern" DH concept.
Is there a choice of left/ right SPG fitting on the first stage? (this is not a biggie of course)

 

[herman]

I dove a borrowed RAM in the late 70's for a while and owned (and dove) another a few years ago until I tried the rebreather thing.
They are good regs but I have been saying for years that if someone could produce a truy modern new production DH that performs well I will definitely be in that!! I have a few questions that those of you may know an answer to:
Is there any chance of a mouthpiece that allows a choice of aftermarket molded mouthpieces? It seems to me that staying with the vintage style mouthpieces (which were just OK) would not be truly in keeping with the "modern" DH concept.
Is there a choice of left/ right SPG fitting on the first stage? (this is not a biggie of course)

My understanding is a rebreather like mouthpiece is in the works. Just so much a small operation can accomplish at a time.
As for the SPG, there is one HP outlet oriented to the lower left.
You should try a RAM or Phoenix with a HPR and the latest diaphragm, they are very good and the Argonaut is an improve on them. The Argo has better inhalation characteristics and the exhaust is much better. I have been diving a prototype in USD metal cans for about 8 months, including week long trips to Roatan and Bonaire and in Coz a few weeks ago where I put about 15 dives on the same main body installed in the new plastic cans so I have a good many hours under water with it.

 

[Nemrod]

Many people, including me have wanted a mouthpiece that can use the bites from a single hose. More important, it would be nice to be able to shut the mouthpiece off on the surface. However, I think people are not realizing the expense already gone to by the vdh and the involved parties to get to this point. Perhaps, in due time, with success, a mouthpiece like that would happen, I hope so.

Double hose regulators, because they have the venturi in the can and it is remote from the mouthpiece and there being a cage valve on either side of the mouthpiece, require a large and efficient mouthpiece. This is important to good breathing characteristics and a dry circuit. The USD curved mouthpiece is very efficient and in the new silicone quite comfortable. The old, rotten, hard, neoprene mouthpieces of yore may have looked the same as the ones we dive now but thanks to VDH, they are now available in soft silicone and are so very nice.

And, BTW, the mouthpiece being used here by Couv on his PRAM HPR does have a single hose type bite piece on it complete with weights on his hoses:

Some more double hose divers, along for the fun:

N

 

[reefrat]

Thanks for the info guys!
Left side for the SPG is my preferred option anyway that's good!
Regarding a DSV mouthpiece- I am not too worried about shutting off on the surface and I used to stuff an octo holder thingie in the mouthpiece previously the stop surface freeflows- but a DSV would be nice if one becomes available.
I think that a Scott DSV from the older MKV rebreathers would probably fit the hoses (1.5" right?) and is quite a slim profile. I will shoot Couv a PM and see what he is using for a mouthpiece, but a new silicone repro one would probably be fine.
Cheers and looking forward to hearing more about the Kraken

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Other benefits of double hose reg worth mentioning are:

1) They won't freeflow when heading into a hard current.
2) They are very resistant to freeze up because all the critical components are dry (already mentioned).
3) The air is warmer because it has had time to acclimate going through the length of the hose from the nozzle to your lungs.
4) And of course the bubbles come out from behind your head so viewing marine life is almost like using an RB (already mentioned).
5) And it would be difficult for a rogue panicked diver to mug your air from you, they would have to take an octo (if you have one). If they know how to share air from a DH means that (A) they are either your buddy and know about air shares with a DH, or (B) they know something about diving and it would be rare for them to be cruising around rogue mugging people for their air when they run out.

 

[Bhtmec2]

Does anyone know when any more Phoenix's will be available. I have been looking for one for several months for one of my DH.

If any one hears of an update let me know....

 

[1maddog]

Kraken! Its a great time to be diving. The engineering and pioneering spirit behind its development are simply awesome. In every endeavor there are always a few who stand out and are long remembered in history. Fortunately scuba diving is young enough that we still have some of the early pioneers like Sam and others around to share their experiences. Now we also have the opportunity to witness some of the same spirit in the development of a "new" DH regulator. Gagnan would be pleased to see the application of engineering principles that is going on today. Am I a little overboard--I think not. History will bear me out.

I learned to dive with my father in the early sixties and will always have a preference for DH's especially the simplicity of the single stage. I love my Mistrals, both USD and Spiro but I may have to break my piggy bank to have a Kraken. All of the talk sounds like marketing hype but I've come to trust the word of the principals involved here and so I must have one. If I can just figure out how to have one without having to give up any of my beloved single stages--my CFO must be wooed...

Michael

 

[Nemrod]

Some of the things about the Kraken that are being overlooked is the simplicity and ease of service and adjustability that is designed into it. Both the HP volcano orifice AND the LP volcano orifice can be replaced if damaged or worn. The LP volcano orifice is height adjustable to allow fine tuning of lever height and seat tension. The first stage is essentially the same as the good old Royal Aqua Master/Conshelf/Titan et al first stage we have been using for forty plus years. Any regulator tech who can work on AL products will be right at home inside the Kraken. The HPR second stage is easy to set up and adjust and is really not particularly sensitive to needing to be just right and it's workings will be immediately evident again to any regulator tech. The Argonaut is just a very simple and elegant design just like the USD Royal Aqua Master double hose and Conshelf single hose regulators.

I am not a "principal" and I have no gain to be made. My main bias is that I prefer dh regulators and I am an experienced diver and in particular double hose diver with enough technical expertise to provide an evaluation. I have dived the Kraken now more than enough to have a good feel for it's capabilities. I have two of the test units now in my top secret "Nemrod's Lair" deep, deep, well, I am not telling. In any case, I have taken them apart, measured them, adjusted them this way and that and tested them against stupid human tricks and provided comment to the principals. This is a good regulator and I am confident that statement is not hype.

N