Procedures question for unconscious underwater skin and scuba rescue

[Jim Lapenta]

Kate, I'd dive with you anywhere, anytime.

 

[herbdb]

Katepnatl,

I really like your analysis. The rush to the surface recommentation of a previous poster ignores the number one rule, don't unnecessarily endanger yourself. The last thing anyone needs is two disabled divers at the surface.

 

[lv2dive]

Thanks guys. I am bummed bc I'm not diving this weekend bc I'm sick and that was big grin-worthy when I needed it.

Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack the OP, and I realize I may have contributed to that - sorry!... so I guess the original question was related specifically to SSI procedures other than using the unconscious diver's inflator, and what one should do once they get the unconscious diver to the surface?

 

[Matt Sachs]

I wasnt there so maybe "shoot" was a poor choise of words. I was quoating what I was told by the person that did the rescue. What ever happened, I'm glad they did exactly what they did.

 

[mala]

I'm in training to become a dive instructor! I have to assist in instructing a class on how to bring an unconscious skin and scuba diver to the surface but I can't find the procedure anywhere in my S&P book. I know to use the unconscious divers inflator to take us both to the surface but I can't find any details about what to do on the surface or if I'm missing any steps under water... Any ideas??

talk to your instructor about the various senarios.
its not always possible to use the victims inflator.-if they ran out of air for example.

 

[muddiver]

And if they are using 26-28 lbs of weight? Dumping that is very dangerous for the victim and the rescuer. How do you control the ascent when they were using that much lead? How do you know how much lead they have on period? Dumping lead at depth could kill a diver that may not be dead if they shoot up with a closed airway. If you get tangled up with them what good are you if you are hurt? What if you have a reverse block? A controlled ascent is accomplished using an inflated BC that you are able to control by venting. If one of my students dumped a divers weights at depth in class it would be an automatic fail and require a serious talk and redo of the skill. Dropping weights at depth is one of the most dangerous actions you can take for the vic and yourself.

26 to 28 lbs is a lot of lead. I bearly use that much in a dry suit. None of the students I have worked around ever came close to 26 lbs.

Don't drop any weight, fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

My point is that the OP stated that they were going to use the "elevator button" on the stricken divers BC. That is contrary to what you and 75% of the people that have posted stated because it needs to be a controlled ascent. Ading air to either BC will only add buoyancy and add more task loading because you now have to dump your BC, their BC, watch your computer (remember everyone is saying keep the 30 feet per min. ascent rate) and maintain the casulaties head/neck positioning. Hmmm... Sounds like a really good way to prolong the lack of oxygen to the stricken divers brain and ensure complete death.

You people are over thinking how to get an unconcisous diver to the surface.

 

[lv2dive]

The class I assist does not teach using anyones BC inflator to reise the casulty to the surface. We dump the stricken divers weights and do a controlled ascent using inhearent buoyancy in the divers exposure suit and any air already in the BC.

26 to 28 lbs is a lot of lead. I bearly use that much in a dry suit. None of the students I have worked around ever came close to 26 lbs.

Don't drop any weight, fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

My point is that the OP stated that they were going to use the "elevator button" on the stricken divers BC. That is contrary to what you and 75% of the people that have posted stated because it needs to be a controlled ascent. Ading air to either BC will only add buoyancy and add more task loading because you now have to dump your BC, their BC, watch your computer (remember everyone is saying keep the 30 feet per min. ascent rate) and maintain the casulaties head/neck positioning. Hmmm... Sounds like a really good way to prolong the lack of oxygen to the stricken divers brain and ensure complete death.

You people are over thinking how to get an unconcisous diver to the surface.

Ya know, I -almost- resent being told I'm "over thinking" this... I mean, if there is a topic worthy of thought, this is it.

I wouldn't use your method for getting an unconscious diver (UD) to the surface... I'm gonna get all the air out of my BC and the UD's exposure suit BEFORE I start bringing him up... I don't want to have to manage more than one buoyancy source on the ascent. It does not take long on the bottom to dump the gas out of the rescuer's BC and UD's drysuit (arguably, not long enough to "prolong the lack of oxygen to the stricken divers brain and ensure complete death"). Then, if I need to add a little gas to UD's BC to get started (yes, I'd use the "elevator button), no biggie, and I can always reach back and vent from the butt dump as needed on the ascent...

So my left hand is adding gas in the beginning - if needed - and dumping gas the rest of the time. I'm holding the reg in with my right hand and managing the ascent rate/depth with my bottom timer on my right forearm without a problem... I'm not task loaded because I'm not having to deal with gas expanding in the UD's drysuit or my drysuit because I dumped it on the bottom...

I know this works not because I've thought it through but because I've practiced it a number of times.. what exactly am I overthinking?


At the end of the day - to-may-to, to-mah-to, i imagine we are all looking to do the right thing when confronted with this situation, and there are, of course, benefits and costs to different options. I was just surprised that there was an implication that some fairly generally accepted procedures (discussed above) are likely to lead to death. Just MHO, of course!



ONE NOTE - I do agree with removing weights AT THE SURFACE!!! Just don't see any benefit doing it earlier. Steel doubles weigh more than a single + 25 lbs so if there's a process that works with steel doubles, I don't see a need to dump weights.

ANOTHER NOTE - Obviously if UD is OOG adjustments would have to be made. But I'm discussing the 80%, there are a lot of other exceptions I could think of as well.

 

[bbarnett51]

My stress and rescue training advocated dropping the weights on the surface but not before. The fact is everyone of these situations are different and the most important thing is to keep yourself safe. Make a controlled ascent and do not use two breaths. We learned that this could be counter productive on an unconsious diver bc it can actually force water into the lungs. Once on the surface you get your butt to the boat or shore ASAP and start CPR.

That is what we learned and practiced. What works one time might not the next! I enjoy these discussions though.

 

[PfcAJ]

Kate, remember that 'all the gas' out of a suit isn't a real thing. It might seem like all of it when you're bringing the guy up from 20ft in Blue Grotto, but the residual gas WILL expand when you're bringing them up from say 90ft.

Be prepared to dump that drysuit or the guy youre rescuing will be going for a ride.

 

[rlynch]

I get to go do it this weekend (PADI rescue senario #7 i belive). Should be easier in singles than the last one i Did in doubles & Drysuits durring Fundies. I agree with Kat's suggestions. Weight only comes off at the surface, we had an AOW student with almost 30lbs of lead on in a wetsuit recently.