Problems with Certified to 130 feet in one course, circa 1975-1980

[drbill]

My original OW certification through Los Angeles County in the late 60s allowed me to dive to 130 fsw. When I started diving internationally in 2001, PADI instructors would require me to do a check out dive because they had no awareness of the original LAC certs even though I'd been diving longer than they'd been alive.I felt they needed a better understanding of the history of dive certification programs. I finally met up with one older PADI instructor in Cairns who not only recognized my LAC cert but called my card a "museum piece." He gave me the PADI AOW cert for the cost of the materials (and demonstration of the skills).

 

[KeithG]

One thing to remember is that your c card is NOT a license. It is simply a diploma from a training course.

 

[rhwestfall]

and didn't show up with a double-hose reg,

Seriously? That is your measure of ability?

 

[Bob DBF]

My original OW certification through Los Angeles County in the late 60s allowed me to dive to 130 fsw.

I've been interested in when the 130' recreational limit happened. Did the the class actually use the number.

In '62 I was initially trained, the training was for no decompression limit diving. The only limit was how deep you could dive under NDL (technically 190'). That being said, a larger focus of training was on the skills and mindset to extend your personal limit safely. Of course, back then, diving was dangerous and treated as such.


Bob

 

[Darnold9999]

NAUI in 78 gave me a "Scuba Diver" card. There was no discussion of 60' limits or even recommendations to that effect. The course was taught by the university safety diver, included pretty much everything from OW, AOW and Rescue today. There was discussion around depth limits of roughly 130 feet as using a steel 72 beyond that depth gave you essentially no bottom time using the tables.

First rec dive after certification was with the assistant instructor to 110 feet with a blue water ascent on a local shore dive. First and only time I have seen a salmon in the ocean.

Had issues with the card when I went to Australia on a Mike Ball liveaboard ten years ago. They wanted to restrict depth to 60 feet. Did a checkout dive and the issue went away. Came back and got a Rescue card to avoid the issue on subsequent trips.

 

[icechip]

I first got "Scuba Diver" certified in 1979 through YMCA in Illinois. The book was Joe Strykowski's "Diving For Fun". The class was twelve weeks long, three mights a week: two hour classroom session and one hour pool session, which switched to one hour classroom and two hour pool by the time we ended. We did nothing but swim skills the first few pool sessions, snorkeling skills the next two weeks, never actually saw/used scuba gear until the fifth week of class. Same as Darnold9999, there was no discussion of 60' limits, it was all about bottom time, your tables and and your amount of air.

 

[arew+4]

When I was certified in 1990,, the emphasis was on recreational no decompression diving. We were told there was nothing stopping us from renting gear and doing what ever the hell wanted to do. We were told the recreational depth limit was 130 feet, but we should not fixate on that, or set it as some sort of target or goal. See the shallow stuff first, work your way deeper as you gain experience. The tables are based on statistics and you could be an outlier. The proliferation of dive computers has made rec diving more accessible, and safer at all levels. I also think they make certain personality types even bolder, to the point they would sign up for a dive like the Speigle Grove for their 3rd or 4th dive post cert, with their equally unprepared friend as a buddy team. I get that dive logs can be faked, and computers can be borrowed, so I can understand that operators want some concrete assurance that the person getting on their boat has some relevant experience. I would think by now PADI, NAUI, SDI etc. would have some sort of cross agency digital dive passport. Just think about the money making potential, annual subscription, plus dive op ads a couple bucks to each trip to add your data.

 

[JamesBon92007]

Nobody has "taken away" my certification--I simply got mine updated. I contacted NAUI when I began traveling and going on dive boats and got funny looks because my C-Card said "Scuba Diver" on it. These days that means something like you are qualified to go diving in a swimming pool with an instructor. They didn't have any records earlier than 1970 but, as it turns out, I went through the class again in '83 along with my ex (just to make sure they didn't leave anything out) plus I sent them copies of my original C-Cards (both paper and plastic) along with the name of the dive shop and instructor. They sent me a "Master Diver" card. From what I read on NAUI's web site you currently need to take 10 separate courses to get a Master card. My original course cost $20. That was 1969 so, based upon northernone's math, I think that comes out to about $89 present-day dollars. It was a special, during the week course and I'm guessing business was slow. We spent most of the day, five days a week, for two weeks in the classroom, the pool, and the ocean. I'm guessing that today 10 courses would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $4000. To me it's very plain that there is more money to be made with separate, "specialty" courses.

We were taught that 130' was the "recreational limit" but were also taught about doing decompression dives and how to plan them. We were also taught about such things as wreck penetration and cave diving and what precautions to take but as I recall it was not something that you just went out and did, it was more like something that you sought more information about and hopefully could find someone with experience to guide you. IOW, I felt that my original course was somewhat of a "basic introduction" rather than attempting to be an in-depth course on everything. In the back of my mind it could be summed up as something like: "sure, if you want to go cave diving, go ahead, but make damned sure you know what you are doing beforehand." In any case they did touch on a lot of different aspects of diving in one course that they do not seem to include with the present-day methods. I never heard the expression "Open Water" until a few years ago and had to ask what it meant. To summarize, my definition of the phase "Scuba Diver" on my original C-Card meant that I was qualified to do whatever I wanted as long as it wasn't something stupid.

 

[Sam Miller III]

Dr Bill stated
'My original OW certification through Los Angeles County in the late 60s allowed me to dive to 130 fsw. When I started diving internationally in 2001, PADI instructors would require me to do a check out dive because they had no awareness of the original LAC certs even though I'd been diving longer than they'd been alive.I felt they needed a better understanding of the history of dive certification programs. I finally met up with one older PADI instructor in Cairns who not only recognized my LAC cert but called my card a "museum piece." He gave me the PADI AOW cert for the cost of the materials (and demonstration of the skills)''
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Bill Thanks a lot -- Now I really feel my age -- I was the one who recommended your instructor Ron Merker for the LA Co Program in the 1950s- In order to be considered to became an LA Co you needed recommendation from two active LA Co instructors.- I was one-- I don't recall the other instructor

Re 130 feet maximum depth

I searched 'Underwater Recreation Manual , July 1954 by Bev Morgan the very first LA County diving instruction manual, which the first organizational dive manuals published a very historical document .

There is no reference to maximum depth

I searched the second LA County diving instruction manual, Underwater Recreation by Al Tillman No date on publication but I suspect 1958=9 (Al passed away about 10 years ago- no way to verify date)

Also there is no reference to maximum depth.

I have all of the LA co recreation al diving manuals as well as a number of long forgotten dive manuals in my library and will review in the future-- just to see if 130 foot is mentioned

I recall from the day I transitioned from free diving to SCUBA , in 1951, at that time 130 feet was considered the maximum depth or sport divers

Perhaps 130 feet is a modem urban legend of SCUBA ??

So stay tuned

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Re LA Co diving certification acceptance
I have never had any problem any where any time with acceptance of LA County certification , but my instructor number is 2 digits in LA Co & NAUI and equally lower in all the rest of the instructor alphabet including PADI.

But always carried other certification cards as back up just in case

I was at the Blue Hole in NM were I met a super duper self impressed PADI instructor (John take note--Please! No Cardiac problems!)
He stated with great authority that all diving began with PADI -- there was absolutely no recreational diving before PADI reared it head in 1969-- no books, no training nothing !
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My son had finished Med School with two post Doc specialties ER -4 years and 2 years Hyperbaric at Scrips.

He needed a vacation and chose Hawaii for him and his family with some diving time for him. I informed him with all the late model tube sucking bubble blowing instructors loose on the dive boats he should take all of his certifications.

Which he did, LA co basic , (at age 7 under the same Ron Merker who showed no mercy) NAUI (Life) Instructor & PADI Instructor- and if that wasn't enough his SSI Pro 5000. Impressed the heck out of the instructor and captain. The instructor or captain said "You don't need to follow the group tour, just quietly slip over the side" -- which he did for two dives.

On the return trip one of the yearly vacation divers had an episode and complained. Sam IV did a cursory examination and history and found no problem related to diving , but advised the diver to check in to ER if the problem persist.

The captain stated to the effect "You sure know a lot about medicine are you an EMT?"
Sam replied "No I am an ER & Hyperbaric physician."

The captain with great surprise stated "You are the first NAUI (Life) Instructor & PADI Instructor, SSI Pro 5000 as well as a ER & Hyperbaric doctor to ever ride on this boat --Any time you are in the islands you are welcome to come along for a dive as my special guest" Which Sam IV has done on numerous occasions

Thus was created a very strong and I suspect lasting friendship
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SAM IV? --Still diving at 50 plus He is now the director of the ER/Hyperbaric department of a large regional hospital on his way to becoming chief of staff
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The moral of this long post ? (My wife is taking a nap and does not want any noise - so I wrote this FYI

SDM
(Dr. Sam III for you Dr Bill )

 

[Asteve]

Let see got my OW some where around 1978, Did pool and class work in Denver and then when out to Calif, used a different dive agency, did a pool check and 3 open water dives for them in San Diego for my OW. Two days later I was on a dive trip. First dive after certification was on a dive trip to Chanel Inland, and it was to 80 feet, my 4th dive on the trip was a night dive. So when you got your OW back then, you were good to go, you knew it all. HaHaHa.