Pressure in tank

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When I started diving long, long ago fill stations put the tanks into a long tank of cold water while filling. There was usually room enought o fill 5-10 tanks at a time depending on the shop's size.
I don't remember ever having a "hot fill", and the pressures stayed the same after filling.
Why do fill stations not do this anymore?

BTW the coolest fill station I remember from when I was young in the early '70s was at Scuba Point on Possum Kingdom Lake- our best local diving. They had a pipe that ran from the bottom of the lake- about 70', up to their fill station. They pumped water continuously, and that water was cold!
About 10 years ago I got a fill in FL where they put the tanks in a bin of water. I don't think they were filling them while they were in the water. This was on the panhandle in winter so hot weather wasn't the reason.
 
When I started diving long, long ago fill stations put the tanks into a long tank of cold water while filling. There was usually room enought o fill 5-10 tanks at a time depending on the shop's size.
I don't remember ever having a "hot fill", and the pressures stayed the same after filling.
Why do fill stations not do this anymore?

It might actually not be that much cooler inside the tank when using this method, so it may not be very useful. I don't remember who did the maths though.
 
I'm not a physics expert, but I believe it has something to do with how quickly they fill them. A "hot fill" will result in less in the tank. Either way, they do "cool off". I'm sure someone will explain exactly how a hot fill differs from a normal fill. I'm happy with about 2800-3200 PSI starting a dive. Less than that and I may mention being short-filled.
You don't have to be a physics expert.
1. PV = nRT
2. Adiabatic compression. JFGI, it has its own Wikipedia page.

In normal English: when you compress a gas, the temperature rises. So, unless you cool your tank during filling, it will be warm. And the pressure in the tank will decrease as the tank cools. And THAT effect will be even more noticeable in cool parts of the world. I overfill less during summer, when it can get a mite warm in my car's trunk.

The effect becomes more pronounced at higher pressures. Google "van der Waals gas". I routinely overfill my tanks by 10%. When I had a 200 bar (3000psi) tank, just overfilling was good enough, I'd have some 200 bar at the site. Nowadays, with my 300 bar tanks, even a 10% overfill isn't enough. If I don't top them up after cooling, I'll have about 280 bar at the site.
 
When I started diving long, long ago fill stations put the tanks into a long tank of cold water while filling. There was usually room enought o fill 5-10 tanks at a time depending on the shop's size.
I don't remember ever having a "hot fill", and the pressures stayed the same after filling.
Why do fill stations not do this anymore?
1: It's more expensive to install a water tank in the fill station
2: Concerns about getting water into the customer's tank because the fill monkey isn't able to keep the tank valve dry
 
1: It's more expensive to install a water tank in the fill station
2: Concerns about getting water into the customer's tank because the fill monkey isn't able to keep the tank valve dry
leaks and mold....
 
Yeah, and these were the old steel 72s. The fill stations we used back then all used a compressor too if I remember correctly. I'm not sure I ever saw a cascade fill.
 
The cost of water cooling at the fill station isn't incredible. Many shops use 55-gallon Rubbermaid trash containers, one tank per container, better than nothing. And since the tank can only lean over so far, if you don't overfill the container the valve stays dry too.

But it doesn't cost a fortune to build a "pool" out of concrete block or cinderblock and use that with multiple tanks and fills. There's some value in having a thick water jacket around the tanks, and a masonry wall around the water, because IF a tank bursts, all that water and masonry will help ensure that fragments only go up, rather than outward among the customers and employees.

Pardon me for speaking in PSI not Bar, I just never made the switch. But when an Alu80 is certified for use at 3000 psi with a 10% overfill, that means the shop can (arguably should) fill it to 3300 psi. And our hydro shops simply don't care but the tank can maintain that plus rating forever, so 3300 PSI should be no concern. The burst disc would routinely be around 4000 psi and the tanks are certified for use at 5000 psi (which is how they are retested at hydro) for 100,000 fill cycles. So again, using them at "new tank overfill" pressure is still plenty conservative.

I did hear one shop say they never filled over 3000 "because it works our compressor too hard" and that's just called shoddy equipment or a cheap owner. Regardless of the rated pressure in a tank, having or losing a 10% or 15% safety margin in the capacity given by the fill, is worth considering. With all the expense and effort consumed in diving, who wants to give up 10% of their sport time because some shop is too lazy to simply do a proper fill?
 
The cost of water cooling at the fill station isn't incredible. Many shops use 55-gallon Rubbermaid trash containers, one tank per container, better than nothing. And since the tank can only lean over so far, if you don't overfill the container the valve stays dry too.

But it doesn't cost a fortune to build a "pool" out of concrete block or cinderblock and use that with multiple tanks and fills. There's some value in having a thick water jacket around the tanks, and a masonry wall around the water, because IF a tank bursts, all that water and masonry will help ensure that fragments only go up, rather than outward among the customers and employees.

Pardon me for speaking in PSI not Bar, I just never made the switch. But when an Alu80 is certified for use at 3000 psi with a 10% overfill, that means the shop can (arguably should) fill it to 3300 psi. And our hydro shops simply don't care but the tank can maintain that plus rating forever, so 3300 PSI should be no concern. The burst disc would routinely be around 4000 psi and the tanks are certified for use at 5000 psi (which is how they are retested at hydro) for 100,000 fill cycles. So again, using them at "new tank overfill" pressure is still plenty conservative.

I did hear one shop say they never filled over 3000 "because it works our compressor too hard" and that's just called shoddy equipment or a cheap owner. Regardless of the rated pressure in a tank, having or losing a 10% or 15% safety margin in the capacity given by the fill, is worth considering. With all the expense and effort consumed in diving, who wants to give up 10% of their sport time because some shop is too lazy to simply do a proper fill?
There is no permissable "10% overgill" for AL tanks. The whole "plus rating" thing is for steel only.
 
Thanks for clearing that up. I *thought* my first tank (an Alu80) was 3000+ rated. Still, 3000 service pressure is certified at 100,000 cycles at 5000 psi, so there's a good safety margin.
 
There is no permissable "10% overgill" for AL tanks. The whole "plus rating" thing is for steel only.
That was my thought--and why I wonder about a shop that does this with my AL80s. I've seen 3300, even a bit more on occasion.
But would you call it an overfill to say 3200 if it cooled down to 3000?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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