Preparing For A Total Silt Out
- Thread starter GLENFWB
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OP
GLENFWB
Contributor
Just tell me to shut up if this gets old. But, the reason I am intrigued by this is, when taking cavern class, and in talking with various divers about the subject of cave ins...everyone seemed to indicate this is a rare event. You on the other hand have been involved in two. Are you talking about a chunk of rock falling or something more substantial?
Remind me not to dive with you...
Glen, it may be rare, but it does happen. I've heard of a few collapses happening at JB over the past 15 years. You've been in the JB cavern. The room where the gold line begins is a breakdown. All that rock on the floor was once on the ceiling. Take a look at it next time you're there. Look at the bottom and the ceiling and you'll see how it could fit together. All the breakdowns in JB were once on the ceiling as well. I can think of at least 6 breakdown areas off the top of my head. I also tell my cavern/cave students these are rare events, but there is evidence right in front of us that it has happened and it's not likely that it will not occur again. In other words, it will continue to happen. Hopefully no one will be in the cave at the time because not only will there be the danger of it coming down on that person or blocking that person in, but it will also likely cause the entire system to blow out.
When you travel through a cave and count the areas with break-down, there appear to be a relatively small number of evernts. And when you look at the age of the cave, the odds of being in that exact area at that exact point in time is one hell of a coincidence. Granted, pushing small sections of cave, disturbing what has until the most recent history (really just a blink in the big scheme of things) undisturbed, and the general pressure that human activity will place on the caves may increase the odds, but it is still pretty rare. Then again, I had a decent-sized chunk of rock fall on me this weekend in the breakdown room at peanut (just from perculation). I was in the DR a couple of months ago and one of the caves had a constant "rain" of small pebbles from the ceiling just from the air bubbles. Just one of those possibilities you should consider before "taking the plunge". Nobody says you HAVE to be cave diver.
SuPrBuGmAn
Contributor
Some caves are more prone to breakdown than others as well. Glen, after you get into a few more systems, you'll start to notice the differences in materials and consistancies making up the walls around you. You have hard stuff, soft stuff, crumbly stuff, craggly stuff, etc.
cmufieldhockey8
Contributor
In response to the original question, trust your training and do what you've been trained to do. That calmed me down in a second when I got spooked.
It's also nice to really pay attention to the line- in what part of the cave is it located, when does it change, wrap around a rock etc, along the same lines of karstdvr's advice to know the cave. It's nice to know what the line's gonna do when you're following it out in the dark.
It's also nice to really pay attention to the line- in what part of the cave is it located, when does it change, wrap around a rock etc, along the same lines of karstdvr's advice to know the cave. It's nice to know what the line's gonna do when you're following it out in the dark.
OP
GLENFWB
Contributor
The purpose of this thread, and my questions are because I HAVE decided that I do want to be a cave diver. Since taking my cavern class, I have tried to dive as much as I can, read as many books on cave diving as I can, and ask cave divers as many questions as I can. I may not HAVE to be a cave diver....but sure am looking forward to it!
OP
GLENFWB
Contributor
I have always read the same thing....of course caves evolve through time...I was just interested in the fact that someone said they were in two "collapses". But, I see my definition of collapse is somewhat different then the way the word was being used.
Actually, I have spent a great deal of time looking at the rock structures in the cavern at JB. I am intrigued by how caves develop. I have just finished the section in the new cave diving book that talks about this process. It was extremely interesting to read, and then apply what they talked about, to the different kinds of cavern/rock formations I have seen up to this point.
Actually, some of us where talking after a dive in JB, about how it must have been a very violent event, that caused some of the huge rocks to collapse that you see on the floor of the cavern. It is all very interesting.
Actually, I have spent a great deal of time looking at the rock structures in the cavern at JB. I am intrigued by how caves develop. I have just finished the section in the new cave diving book that talks about this process. It was extremely interesting to read, and then apply what they talked about, to the different kinds of cavern/rock formations I have seen up to this point.
Actually, some of us where talking after a dive in JB, about how it must have been a very violent event, that caused some of the huge rocks to collapse that you see on the floor of the cavern. It is all very interesting.
If you cave dive long enough you'll see some type of geological event. The only true cave in that resulted in a fatality was Parker Turner at Indian,and this was a very rare event. Do caves collapse,yes,there have been some recent issues in Mexico.
I was doing some survey work in Lafayette Blue,and I must have gotten under a fissure crack in the ceiling where my bubbles evacuated the contents,so it dumped a lot of sediment and sand on top of me,but also blew out viz in a chunk of cave. The stupid thing is that was one of my survey stations and I needed my azimuth,so I went back the next day to have the same thing happen again-this time I got my azimuth.
I have seen moderate sized rocks fall from the ceiling in caves,even some popular caves like Peacock-I don't go in the Crypt anymore. If you go in Pot springs it is a pretty impressive site to see a boulder sitting on top of the permenant line.
This is all part of the natural process of cave formation,I just don't want to be part of the process.
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Remind me not to dive with you...
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Rob
I'll show you a really cool cave in South GA where standard operating procedure is to take a trenching tool,because sometimes you dig your way out
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