Question silt out communication

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OP
lermontov

lermontov

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wondering what comms system do people use in a silt out - had a recent trip where one diver went through a silty restriction and was waiting for the second diver to come through - second diver didn't want to follow so both waited for each other to make a move -both fearing if they both went at the same time they would meet head to head in a tight unturnable restriction

I have an idea of a plan but wanting to hear others systems

eg a signal for :
i need help
I are you coming?
yes im coming
no im not coming
 
what happened to the diver in the lead - did they exit somewhere?
They met head to head and struggled to turn in the tiny space. Then they had to go through the restriction, which the second diver had never managed to get through before, so the lead diver had to go first to be sure at least one of them could get through. They both got through, but it was a struggle. It is a long story from there, and it has been well documented. In a quick summary, they were separated, with their line having come loose and creating line traps. The second diver got stuck in a line trap. He decided to go off CCR to his bailout (not sure why) and ran out of gas. The other diver found him just after he died.

This happened at a depth of nearly 200 foot, BTW.
 
If in doubt, head back out.

If I've lost my buddy, I'll look for up to a minute, and then head back out. If it's a complete silt-out, they might be trying to find the main line and need my help. Then the only thing you need to do is to exit, hopefully after you've connected. Block your light from time to time as you do, and look to see if you can spot them.
 
FWIW, just because you thoroughly discuss a plan on the surface, that does not mean everyone will fully remember a complex plan when you get to depth. Hopefully they do, but I've seen people forget what they were supposed to do (and not to throw stones from within glass houses, I've been that guy before myself).

"If it doesn't make sense on the surface, it sure won't make sense at 100'."
Why I won't dive with an END of 100ft in a complex, small, or low viz cave.
 
wondering what comms system do people use in a silt out - had a recent trip where one diver went through a silty restriction and was waiting for the second diver to come through - second diver didn't want to follow so both waited for each other to make a move -both fearing if they both went at the same time they would meet head to head in a tight unturnable restriction

I have an idea of a plan but wanting to hear others systems

eg a signal for :
i need help
I are you coming?
yes im coming
no im not coming
I’ve read through the thread, sounds like you’re talking about two separate but often related issues; how to communicate in zero/low vis and how to communicate and coordinate teamwork in restrictions. The way I was trained, diver 1 approaches the restriction but does not enter, signals restriction, waits for an ok, then goes through. Diver 2 waits for an ok signal that indicates diver 1 is through and waiting, then goes through, signals ok to waiting diver 1, then the team moves onward.

I would try to stick with that protocol as closely as you can in poor vis. In Mexico this sort of thing happens all the time, not so much because of silt, but any restriction in a halocline quickly deteriorates into a cloudy mess. It’s pretty unusual that you can’t at least see enough shadows to interpret light movement. A nice slow steady movement of the light shadow is a decent indicator that diver 2 can go through. For me, whenever there’s a loss of vis, I instinctively contact the line. So in this situation I’m either cautiously proceeding through the restriction in contact with the line or I’m the guy waiting on the line on the other side. I would not have entered the restriction until I’ve received some sort of ok signal. If the vis is so bad that that is impossible, I’m going to stay put for a while and hope diver 1 figures out he’s got to come back. There’s no rush, everyone’s got gas.

There is definitely some variance in how well divers signal restrictions and make a team decision before anyone goes through. Sometimes it’s not easy to see a tight spot until you’re practically in it. But in general communicating through restrictions and being able quickly adjust communication techniques to make sure your intent is clear are two pretty reliable indicators of team awareness.

If the vis has really gone bad and you can’t interpret any light shadows, the only way to communicate is touch contact, and one thing you can certainly do beyond the go/stop/hold is to slide your hand along the line to contact your teammate’s hand, then form the signal and confirm. In the few unfortunate **** shows I’ve had to do this it generally is thumbing the dive. The message is pretty clear, and hopefully there’s enough room to turn around and exit very slowly using touch contact.
 
Situations like this can indeed happen, and they can be fatal. About 5 years ago there was a thread about some sort of short range radio-type device, and people scoffed that it wouldn't ever be needed. I disagreed.

The new Garmins have some built in messaging. Kind of interesting.
 
i'm guessing diver 1 waited around a bit and then headed back out through the restriction once diver 2 didn't materialize? That seems like the only thing you could really do.

Ideallly they would would have both checked out the restriction and okayed it before diver 1 proceeded through it, not sure if that was the case.
 
i'm guessing diver 1 waited around a bit and then headed back out through the restriction once diver 2 didn't materialize? That seems like the only thing you could really do.

Ideallly they would would have both checked out the restriction and okayed it before diver 1 proceeded through it, not sure if that was the case.
To what case are you referring?
 
i'm guessing diver 1 waited around a bit and then headed back out through the restriction once diver 2 didn't materialize? That seems like the only thing you could really do.

Ideallly they would would have both checked out the restriction and okayed it before diver 1 proceeded through it, not sure if that was the case.
Just to clarify im referring to a silt out where theres no physical contact - the lead diver has gone through a long restriction and got through to some space and is waiting

yes that is what eventuated - the problem fro the lead diver was not knowing if the second was coming through or maybe had a problem half way though. Ive had a number of situations where the plan changed because the second didn't want to follow but unless you have a predetermined signal and is out of reach the lead diver doesnt know whats going on -thats is why they both sat there waiting because they were worried they would meet head on in the restriction
 
I don't do many tight restrictions, so if this is stupid, please say so... For longer restrictions, I wonder if it would be better to use touch & go mode? Audible feedback becomes an option, both double-ender taps as well as talking on CCR. It seems like the separation is the fundamental issue here.
 
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