Potential rig. Comments?

[stuartv]

They really aren't giving you a deal that should turn your head. If it was $700, that would be closer to a good deal, at least in terms of price. I am sure they are hyping you about 'blowing out' this deal and that - don't buy it.

How do you figure that? I mean, what should the individual prices on these items be that would result in a $700 total?

My tally is:

R-700 - $250
Delta 4 - $92 x 2
Pro Plus 2.1 w/QD/Compass/USB cable - $450

So, $900, with all the hoses and everything assembled, tuned, and ready to use seems like a really good deal (if those things are what I want).

I don't see any of things anywhere for cheaper than that and mostly more than that. And I generally figure if a local brick-and-mortar store is giving me as good a deal as what I could get online, they are doing pretty darn good!

If you want a bulky, cumbersome console, go for it. It is your money and our individual likes and dislikes (like, Lynne, I have real disdain for the consoles) are really not relevant.

I don't really want a bulky console and have investigated further. I am now looking at getting an Atom 3.0 with wireless AI, plus an SPG and a compass on a hose and maybe a depth gauge as well. Something small that I can clip off and mostly ignore (except for the occasional double checking of the Atom or need of the compass). I'm not sure (yet) exactly how much this option is going to stretch my budget. But, with the savings from going with the Oceanic FDX10 1st stage, instead of the Tusa, it might be feasible.

There is nothing wrong (and there is a lot right) with supporting your LDS. But, any good business relationship involves mutual support. You might want to test the relationship water and see if they are equally willing to support you - by giving a better price, or better yet - better advice on the computer.

After talking to one of the owners last night, I'm pretty sure that a lot of this gear that I am looking at is being offered at their cost or within $5 or $10 of cost. I mean, come on. A Delta 4.1 for $92?! Even the best price I saw for a HOG Zenith on Black Friday was only $75. And the Pro Plus with all that stuff for $450 is way cheaper than you can even get it for on LeisurePro. LP has it for $550 and that may or may not include the USB cable.

I think my LDS is doing me right. I don't feel like they are pushing me towards any one thing. They are just showing me options as they ask about what I want to do with it, my budget, etc., and letting me decide what to go with. I started off heading for the (expensive) MK25/S600 and they steered me towards less expensive options that seem like they'd be just as good or better - for me.

 

[diversteve]

This also could have something to do with your LDS dumping Aeris...

American Underwater Products (AUP) announced today the merger of two of their recreational dive companies, AERIS & Oceanic. Each of these companies currently offer similar product lines to the diving industry worldwide. Effective September 1st, 2014, these lines will be combined and sold exclusively under the Oceanic brand.

News - AERIS Merges With Oceanic

Another option for a AI wrist computer is the Dive Gear Express DG03. It's made for them by Hollis - you can see the resemblance to the Hollis DG02/TX1. $500 for both computer and transmitter - another $100 for the cable though. Search for it here on SB - there's both good/bad reviews.

https://www.divegearexpress.com/computers/dg03.shtml

Assembly/tuning of new regs is generally included in the price...they do seem to be giving you a good deal though.

You would have a problem finding a Hog dealer most places outside the U.S. - they just don't have the coverage the more established brands do yet. It's often recommended by Hog dealers that you purchase a parts kit and carry it with you - they're generic enough that most techs can work on them - if they have the parts.

I dive a lot in the Caribbean - mostly what I see is ScubaPro, Aqualung, Oceanic and Mares in rental fleets. Cressi sometimes also.

 

[AdivingBel]

Hey Stuartv,
I'll preface by saying all of your reasons for your purchase are good 'cause they're your reasons and no one else can fully understand your situation. That said, your posting 'cause you want other opinions, so here's mine.

First, are you planning to advance to tech or rec/tech in the near to mid future? If so, I can't help you 'cause it's above my pay grade. If you're "tidy bowl," vacation diving with you're gf for the foreseeable future, then here's my take. I'm an AOW, warm water, high viz (when possible) diver and my AOW wife is my buddy.

You really just need a basic computer for this type of diving. You need to see your depth, relationship to NDL, handle rec nitrox, and computer interface (if you like to log dives). I dive a DG03 w/o AI (not recommending, it has it's issues) 'cause it was a good deal at DGX and it has a multiple button interface. I've since learned that while multiple buttons are nice, as opposed to the single button, it's not necessary since most of the inital setup can be accomplished via the computer interface. Beyond that, once you learn how to access the most used functions, the single button works fine and they are less expensive. I haven't found AI necessary with this type of diving. I use a clipped off, slimline console. Since I'm not tech, cave, or doing deep wreck penetration diving, I'm not carrying lots of stuff, so keeping a small console clipped off is not a big deal. I would want a hose connected SPG for a backup anyway. If the small console doesn't work for you, just clip off a basic SPG.

As far as regs go, most all work for this type of diving including rentals if you're diving with a reputable dive op. Some may breathe a little differently than others but as long as they are used properly (i.e. venturi dive/predive in the correct position) they work fine. Pre-breathe them prior to leaving the dock, if possible, and request a different one if there is something you don't like. IMO, an ill-fitting BC is much more likely to ruin a "tidy bowl" dive vacation. This poses a couple of problems since w/o a good bit of experience it's hard to know what you like in a BC, and a BC takes up a lot of luggage space. You don't know what you don't know (especially for your gf) so that may preclude a BC purchase.

We own our own gear, but we spend a lot of time in the Keys, so it's worth the expense. I like gear, but in your current situation, I would spend the money on the travel part of dive travel, especially with my significant other. Revisit the purchase after a trip or two with the gf, then you'll really have an idea of how much you'll dive (if she catches the bug, then all bets are off and the skies the limit). Just another thought. If dive traveling, it's not a bad idea to dive the same gear as your significant other, common problems, common issues, common ground, equal footing, etc., etc.. If you really want to catch a Christmas gear deal, maybe pickup a basic computer for both you and your gf. Easy to pack and really handy for dive travel.

Hope this helps. Probably doesn't, but I tried. I really hope you have fun on your trip and your gf catches the bug. There's nothing better than having your significant other as your dive buddy. Easy, peasy and LOTS of diving. Good luck.

 

[stuartv]

This also could have something to do with your LDS dumping Aeris...

News - AERIS Merges With Oceanic

Another option for a AI wrist computer is the Dive Gear Express DG03. It's made for them by Hollis - you can see the resemblance to the Hollis DG02/TX1. $500 for both computer and transmitter - another $100 for the cable though. Search for it here on SB - there's both good/bad reviews.

https://www.divegearexpress.com/computers/dg03.shtml

Assembly/tuning of new regs is generally included in the price...they do seem to be giving you a good deal though.

You would have a problem finding a Hog dealer most places outside the U.S. - they just don't have the coverage the more established brands do yet. It's often recommended by Hog dealers that you purchase a parts kit and carry it with you - they're generic enough that most techs can work on them - if they have the parts.

I dive a lot in the Caribbean - mostly what I see is ScubaPro, Aqualung, Oceanic and Mares in rental fleets. Cressi sometimes also.

Yeah, I've known about the Aeris/Oceanic merger for a little while.

And I have looked at the DG03. I don't like how big and bulky they are. I don't like the UI. And, besides for the price of the DG03 plus TMT plus USB cable, I can't actually get an Atom 3.0 with all that stuff for less!

I'm glad to hear that Oceanic is common in the Caribbean. That makes it an easier to decision to just go with the all-Oceanic reg set (FDX10/Delta 4.1).

Hey Stuartv,
I'll preface by saying all of your reasons for your purchase are good 'cause they're your reasons and no one else can fully understand your situation. That said, your posting 'cause you want other opinions, so here's mine.

First, are you planning to advance to tech or rec/tech in the near to mid future? If so, I can't help you 'cause it's above my pay grade. If you're "tidy bowl," vacation diving with you're gf for the foreseeable future, then here's my take. I'm an AOW, warm water, high viz (when possible) diver and my AOW wife is my buddy.

You really just need a basic computer for this type of diving. You need to see your depth, relationship to NDL, handle rec nitrox, and computer interface (if you like to log dives). I dive a DG03 w/o AI (not recommending, it has it's issues) 'cause it was a good deal at DGX and it has a multiple button interface. I've since learned that while multiple buttons are nice, as opposed to the single button, it's not necessary since most of the inital setup can be accomplished via the computer interface. Beyond that, once you learn how to access the most used functions, the single button works fine and they are less expensive. I haven't found AI necessary with this type of diving. I use a clipped off, slimline console. Since I'm not tech, cave, or doing deep wreck penetration diving, I'm not carrying lots of stuff, so keeping a small console clipped off is not a big deal. I would want a hose connected SPG for a backup anyway. If the small console doesn't work for you, just clip off a basic SPG.

As far as regs go, most all work for this type of diving including rentals if you're diving with a reputable dive op. Some may breathe a little differently than others but as long as they are used properly (i.e. venturi dive/predive in the correct position) they work fine. Pre-breathe them prior to leaving the dock, if possible, and request a different one if there is something you don't like. IMO, an ill-fitting BC is much more likely to ruin a "tidy bowl" dive vacation. This poses a couple of problems since w/o a good bit of experience it's hard to know what you like in a BC, and a BC takes up a lot of luggage space. You don't know what you don't know (especially for your gf) so that may preclude a BC purchase.

We own our own gear, but we spend a lot of time in the Keys, so it's worth the expense. I like gear, but in your current situation, I would spend the money on the travel part of dive travel, especially with my significant other. Revisit the purchase after a trip or two with the gf, then you'll really have an idea of how much you'll dive (if she catches the bug, then all bets are off and the skies the limit). Just another thought. If dive traveling, it's not a bad idea to dive the same gear as your significant other, common problems, common issues, common ground, equal footing, etc., etc.. If you really want to catch a Christmas gear deal, maybe pickup a less expensive computer for both you and your gf. Easy to pack and really handy for dive travel.

Hope this helps. Probably doesn't, but I tried. I really hope you have fun on your trip and your gf catches the bug. There's nothing better than having your significant other as your dive buddy. Easy, peasy and LOTS of diving. Good luck.

Thanks, Bel. I don't have any real Tech aspirations right now. I would like to get full Deep certification and Recreational Wreck certified, so I can check out some wrecks that are in deeper Rec depths at some point in the future. So, I agree that the Petrel is overkill for what I need in the near-to-mid term. I only have it on my list because it is sort of the price cap. If I were considering anything else and the cost was going to be as much as a Petrel 2, then I might as well just buy the Petrel 2 - particularly if I'm going to buy an SPG anyway (thus, making wireless AI a redundant convenience).

As for BCs, we (g/f and I) have done our OW cert and done the full Advanced Buoyancy Control specialty. She used the Selene Wing BC (which is back inflate) the whole time and really liked it. During ABC, she got sorted out and had no trouble maintaining her depth and good horizontal trim, so I think that BC suits her just fine. She and I both really just need practice (I think) in maintaining a steady depth while actually focusing on doing something else - which, to me, is not a BC issue, it's a skill issue. So, I'm comfortable buying her a Selene Wing (at $220). I am going to be renting a BP/W setup next week, so I'll get to try that. I've already had one day in a jacket style (hated it!) and 3 days in back inflate (worked great!).

We have already spent the money on the travel part for our week-long trip that starts next week. So, my plan is to go and do EVERYTHING I can to spark the scuba fire in my g/f. If it works, great. She can continue using the BC she likes and if she likes the reg set and computer I buy, we can get her the same setup. If she doesn't like, well, she'll have tried it and we can rent other stuff for her to try. If she doesn't like scuba at all after this trip, then I'll just be out whatever part of the cost of her wing I end up eating after selling it used. I'm reasonably confident that the reg set and DC I'm looking at now are ones that will work just fine for me for the next year or two or three, and then, IF I decided I want something different, they will make good backups to have around.

If I really thought I might score a much better deal waiting for Christmas, I might wait. But, $391 (plus tax) for an Oceanic FDX10 1st and 2 x Delta 4.1 2nds (with hoses)... well, I have been window shopping for regs for a couple of months now and I really do not believe I would save much if any by waiting for Christmas.

 

[tbone1004]

scuba gear is typically sold at 100% markup, so that is why you see the 50% off MSRP and think it's a good deal, well it is but they're still making money....

I linked those because I figured it was the same shop, how many can be selling the anniversary edition MK25/S600 for that price in Virginia....
If it were me, and I had $900 to blow on a set of gear, here is what I'd do.
Option 1:
AT20 US4 Stage 4 Set - Regulator Packages - Packages - Dive Right in Scuba
or
Hog D1 Singles Regulator Package w/ SPG - Dive Right in Scuba
and
DRIS Dive Gear 28lb BP/W System | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL - Dive Right in Scuba

The Apeks isn't sealed, but you can put a sealed cap on it if you want to, the second stages are an older design and non adjustable, but you really don't need an adjustment knob, and they are Apeks, so not made in China, and will hold their resale value quite well.
Hog kit is what it is, but you can learn to service them yourself, especially if you are overseas. Get an IP gauge and check it before every trip and that will tell you the current condition of your regs. No tax, free shipping, great service, great deals. Call them and they will likely cut you a bit better of a deal especially if you buy two.
Hold off on the computer, you don't really need one yet, and you can log all of your dives manually and same with nitrox, just dive air tables and do the EAD calculations. You just missed the best deal of the year from DRiS on the above systems....

Option 2: If you really like your LDS and want to give them business, then buy one of those damn waterproof W2's they have cuz holy hell that is a good deal on them!
Get the Tusa package I linked, make them give you the other computer for the markup price because that's the difference they have online for it, so that's that, and don't gripe about the lack of adjustment knob because it's pointless anyway if it's tuned properly.... our LDS has a lot of recreational gear for decent prices, but nothing that will hold its value for the long run. You need to go back and properly evaluate what you're going to want to do for long term diving plans. For your GF, either let her use the regs that you buy on the trip and hope that works, get the LDS to rent you stuff at a discount for the trip, or find a buddy who has extra stuff. Many of us loan gear to buddies all the time if they need an extra or backup or whatever for a trip

 

[CptTightPants21]

Oceanic reg will be fine.

I don't like console computers and don't recommend them. One of the greatest benefits of a wrist mounted computer (especially when you are just starting out) is the ability to see your changes in depth and make timely corrections with your buoyancy.

I suggest getting a cheap starter dive computer in the $200 range and get a cheap or used SPG/compass console from the LDS. My LDS was selling the triple consoles (SPG, Depth, compass) used at their black friday event for $100. Getting that and you still have saved over $100.

 

[stuartv]

scuba gear is typically sold at 100% markup, so that is why you see the 50% off MSRP and think it's a good deal, well it is but they're still making money....

I linked those because I figured it was the same shop, how many can be selling the anniversary edition MK25/S600 for that price in Virginia....
If it were me, and I had $900 to blow on a set of gear, here is what I'd do.
Option 1:
AT20 US4 Stage 4 Set - Regulator Packages - Packages - Dive Right in Scuba
or
Hog D1 Singles Regulator Package w/ SPG - Dive Right in Scuba
and
DRIS Dive Gear 28lb BP/W System | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL - Dive Right in Scuba

Option 2: If you really like your LDS and want to give them business, then buy one of those damn waterproof W2's they have cuz holy hell that is a good deal on them!
Get the Tusa package I linked, make them give you the other computer for the markup price because that's the difference they have online for it, so that's that, and don't gripe about the lack of adjustment knob because it's pointless anyway if it's tuned properly.... our LDS has a lot of recreational gear for decent prices, but nothing that will hold its value for the long run. You need to go back and properly evaluate what you're going to want to do for long term diving plans. For your GF, either let her use the regs that you buy on the trip and hope that works, get the LDS to rent you stuff at a discount for the trip, or find a buddy who has extra stuff. Many of us loan gear to buddies all the time if they need an extra or backup or whatever for a trip

Internet prices are typically near 50% of MSRP. That doesn't really get my attention. But, when something is near 50% of typical Internet prices, that does. A Delta 4.1 for $92 seems to be in that category.

The Apeks rig you linked only has 1 HP port and is not rated for water below 50F, so it's out. I want the option (at least) to have wireless AI. And I've already been diving here in 52F water. I want something that is rated by the OEM to go colder.

I considered the HOG D1/Classic option. But, from all my research, I think I would rather spend less money and have the FDX10/Delta 4.1 reg set. The Oceanic setup is cheaper, breathes as well or better, and will be easier to get serviced in the Caribbean.

I also bought a DSS BP/W setup today. $35 on CL. Should be here tomorrow, so I don't know yet exactly what I got. The guy said he bought it 10 years ago, used it for 1 week in Belize, and it has been in a closet ever since. So, he couldn't remember for sure what size, what material, how much lift, etc.. But, the guy is almost as big as I am and he bought the BP/W for single tank Caribbean diving, so I'm hopeful that the backplate and wing are both an appropriate size for me. He advertised the backplate as steel, but the FedEx tracking info says the shipping weight on the package is only 10.5#, so I suspect it's really aluminum.

And I already bought a 3/2 wetsuit and a set of Lavacore gear from my LDS, and a used 7mm wetsuit from the Classifieds here on SB (for $20!), and my g/f bought a Waterproof W3 from the LDS, and we bought all our snorkeling gear at the LDS, too, so I really don't think I need to buy a W2 from the LDS.

 

[halocline]

He advertised the backplate as steel, but the FedEx tracking info says the shipping weight on the package is only 10.5#, so I suspect it's really aluminum.

[/QUOTE]

DSS has never sold AL plates to my knowledge. 10lbs is about right for a steel plate, webbing harness, and small wing. You got a GREAT deal on this. As I mentioned before, the plate will 'fit' you because there's really only one common size of plate (except for the small plates that some manufacturers offer) and the webbing is infinitely adjustable. If it's too tight on you and there's not enough excess webbing to enlarge the shoulder and waist size, you'll just have to buy 15 ft or so of 2" nylon webbing. You can re-use all the hardware that comes with the rig. I think I noticed a xs scuba weight pocket on there as well; those are perfect for adding a couple of pounds.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Hopefully he stored the wing properly and the bladder is OK.

 

[Vegan Shark]

Hollis 212/DC3 are great regs for only $199. Environmentally sealed, cold water is no issue, and they breathe like a champ.