Post-pandemic comeback? Not yet! The dive industry is still crashing.

[boulderjohn]

There's a bunch of poorly trained, certified divers out there who would be making shops money, if they'd been taught correctly in the first place....If we want to fix the industry, that's where we need to start.

I have said this before, and since this thread has been around for awhile, I may have even said it earlier in this thread.

When I was working on my IDC and diving in the shallow waters of Key Largo, I saw a young woman nearly crawling on the sand. She was obviously grossly overweighted. The look on her face was something close to pain. My immediate reactions were 1) she is hating every minute of this dive and 2) no student of mine will ever look like this.

In the dive shop where I used to work, in the midst of an argument about training quality, the Director of Instruction told me "Instructors are a dime a dozen"--about every two weeks some new instructor walks into the shop looking for work. Every one of them has exactly what the shop's owner was looking for in an instructor--the ability to certify divers who would buy gear and go on shop-sponsored trips. The quality of the divers produced did not matter one iota to him. An instructor who did not like the way things were could be replaced in a heartbeat.

The key is indeed right there in the hands of the shop owners. All they have to do is make it clear that they want quality training, and it will happen.

 

[Searcaigh]

@drrich2 's post got me thinking of my first gear purchases when I started recreational diving in 1986-97

Masks - Possibly two or three, can't remember exactly
Snorkels - Two
Fins - Two pairs, I lost one fin on shore dive in Jeddah and had to buy another pair which I used for the rest of my time in Saudi.
Regulator - One Mares MR12 Mk III and that lasted until around 2000.
BCD - TUSA Extreme x 2, first one just wore out at around 500 dives
Wetsuits - Four, two were US Divers Farmer John/Jacket style, one Otter 7mm MTM Semi Dry, and another one piece 3mm whose make I don't recall.
Tanks - 16, ten AL80s but also four AL50s and a two AL30s (I still have the 50s and 30s)

All of the gear with the exception of the tanks was brand new when I purchased it, and was bought from dive shops in Jeddah, (Saudi Arabia) and in the UK as there was no internet to buy things online back then.

There were a few dive lights and other assorted accessories too, but nothing expensive apart from the Nikonos cameras and strobes than the Nikon SLRs and housings and arms and more strobes ..... but that's another story

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Per the Chinese market, they were in lockdown and unable to leave. I was in Europe in September. No Chinese tour groups anywhere and obviously noticeable.

That's going to have a huge impact on the numbers.

 

[boulderjohn]

About the Chinese diving situation....

A year or so ago I started a thread in the instructor to Instructor forum. I had gone through a year or more of PADI professoinal journals and looked at the quarterly listings of expelled instructors. IIRC, nearly all of them were Asian, and the vast majority of those were Chinese. I wondered why.

I got a private answer. The answer was that the problem lay with the legal system there. A dive shop can advertise that it teaches according to a specific agency, but it has no official affiliation with that agency. It hires instructors who are certified by that agency, and then orders them to teach within whatever limits the shop wishes. Those limits could totally violate agency standards, but if the instructor wants to work, then the instructor must agree to those standards violations.

Eventually something bad will happen, perhaps causing a student's death. An investigation will reveal that the isntructor was violating standards, and the instructor will be punished both by the law (maybe) and the agency. The agency has no power whatsoever over the shop. The shop will hire a new instructor to replace the one that the agency just expelled, and life goes on. As long as there is no repercussion to the shop, why would they care?

Once again, it all comes down to the shop level to control things. If the shop owner has no incentive to do the right thing, then the right thing will not be done.

 

[VikingDives]

That's an interesting summary, and it has me wondering how a wisely run dive shop would craft a strategic 'vision' of its view of customers over time.

What you describe is looking beyond initial OW training/certification and gear sales to the somewhat longer-term, where better trained OW grad.s are more likely to keep diving and take more classes and buy more gear. That sounds good, but it seems to me that would still mostly fizzle out over time (albeit with more profit).

How much training and gear does the mainstream recreational diver (not tech. diver; it's my understanding tech. divers are a small minority) need? I'd say:

1.) Training: OW, AOW, Nitrox, ideally Rescue Diver but not required. Some people pursue Dive Master (for self-improvement) or Solo Diver.

2.) Gear: mask, boots, fins, BCD, regulator, dive computer, dive light, a cutting tool, deployable SMB. They may get their camera and underwater housing online.

That's a lot more than mask, boots, fins and an OW course, but the point remains...when your former trainees are at this level, do you focus on continuing to 'monetize' them or rely on new students?

Offering organized group dive trips seems to be the obvious way, unless you can cajole some into tech. diving.

How does your shop approach this issue, @VikingDives ?

You pretty much hit it on the head. There are always little things though. Most divers will want things like a Nautilus Lifeline, a DSMB, a spool, etc - If they are coming around, there are always ancillary things they need.

The training certainly falls off after a certain point, but that's ok. Because they come diving with us (we invite all our students to come dive with us whenever we are out) they're my best recruiters.

Here's a recent example - I was doing a bit of work with one of my students (#1) who'd just finished fundies with a rec pass. He really want to do GUE tech, so we were working his skills on doubles. A diver we didn't know wandered over and started talking to us - my student recruited him to take classes with me. He'd just been certified OW with another shop.

The recruited student (#2) took AOW, Nitrox and is working on rescue with the intentions of becoming a DM with me. The last time we were out, he found another guy... #3 was just certified and according to #2, "He's a real mess in the water." #2 recruited #3 to take a class with me... #2 also recruited a co-worker to get certified.

We do a bunch of things that most shops and instructors would say are bad for business. I'll send customers to the internet to get equipment if something's right for them. I'll even buy it for them (I do charge %10 for my time though).

I will give free advice and tips to anyone who asks. We try to be helpful to anyone, whether they pay us or not. That seems to pay off in the long run.

My business model is I treat people like they're my friends coming to my business. I make money from equipment sales, but I don't gouge on prices. I try to run the kind of shop I wanted to find when I got certified - good training, good advice, and fair prices. No jacket BCs used or sold, no split fins...

I won't run cheap classes and I pay my instructors really well. A class of 3 from my shop pays what I used to get for teaching a class of 10 for another shop. I also pay my DMs and AIs. I'm pretty sure that makes me a unicorn, but my view is, professionals should get paid for their work.

As far as trips go, that's certainly a way to keep customers engaged... I'm not sure there's a big profit margin there. I've got a full-time day job, so we haven't started doing travel yet.

If we can get @CycleCat to chime in, he could give you his perspective on what and how we do things. We "met" here and ended up going diving a few times, and he took AOW with me. He probably has a more objective view of what and how we do things.

I guess that's a long way of saying that I'm not worried about making money from any particular student, or that they'll come a day where their sales fall off, because they're my best source of new customers.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Because they come diving with us (we invite all our students to come dive with us whenever we are out) they're my best recruiters.

Here's a recent example - I was doing a bit of work with one of my students (#1) who'd just finished fundies with a rec pass. He really want to do GUE tech, so we were working his skills on doubles. A diver we didn't know wandered over and started talking to us - my student recruited him to take classes with me. He'd just been certified OW with another shop.

The recruited student (#2) took AOW, Nitrox and is working on rescue with the intentions of becoming a DM with me. The last time we were out, he found another guy... #3 was just certified and according to #2, "He's a real mess in the water." #2 recruited #3 to take a class with me... #2 also recruited a co-worker to get certified.

We do a bunch of things that most shops and instructors would say are bad for business. I'll send customers to the internet to get equipment if something's right for them. I'll even buy it for them (I do charge %10 for my time though).

I will give free advice and tips to anyone who asks. We try to be helpful to anyone, whether they pay us or not. That seems to pay off in the long run.

My business model is I treat people like they're my friends coming to my business. I make money from equipment sales, but I don't gouge on prices. I try to run the kind of shop I wanted to find when I got certified - good training, good advice, and fair prices. No jacket BCs used or sold, no split fins...

I won't run cheap classes and I pay my instructors really well. A class of 3 from my shop pays what I used to get for teaching a class of 10 for another shop. I also pay my DMs and AIs. I'm pretty sure that makes me a unicorn, but my view is, professionals should get paid for their work.


I guess that's a long way of saying that I'm not worried about making money from any particular student, or that they'll come a day where their sales fall off, because they're my best source of new customers.

You're not worried because you provide quality customer service and you strive the give the best training possible, and work towards the best interest of the customer, whether that earns you income right off the bat or none at all. You let the pieces fall where they may based on doing the right thing.

The most successful shops follow this plan overall. They do have lower volumes than the mills, but the income per customer is much higher. Everyone understands that this is an expensive hobby. How shops address that in a respectful and non-push way varies dramatically. If a customer wants to grow in a certain way, some equipment has to be purchased. While LDSs typically can't match online, loyal customers will buy from them if they are treated right (there are exceptions of course where people spend hours with shop employees and then buy online).

At the first PADI shop I taught, the owner was like a used car salesman in a cheap suit (no offense to members who are used car salespeople in suits purchased from Kmart). The push for buying equipment right off the bat just turned the students off. I remember shaking my head, looking at my students, as the owner would make his sales pitch. I don't think he ever sold a package deal as a result. You want advice? Buy something. He also delayed actually ordering things that were not in stock for as long as possible. He did take your money right away of course. There were ceaseless complaints. Someone here from ScubaBoard became a customer, spent $15K on equipment and training with months of notice as he was overseas, yet not everything was waiting for him as the owner didn't bother to order many of the things. This customer had to harass the owner to get a refund on around $2K of orders that were never fulfilled. It was absolutely ridiculous and I felt guilty for ever bringing him into the shop. This was the beginning of the end (and the beginning of the end was shortly after the shop opening - it didn't last long).

Treat your customers right. Those that do, succeed. There is one shop, originally SSI, now SDI. In all the years I have been diving, there has never been a complaint about the owner. It is a tough business, yet shops like his and a few others are more sustainable (my opinion).

 

[CycleCat]

If we can get @CycleCat to chime in, he could give you his perspective on what and how we do things. We "met" here and ended up going diving a few times, and he took AOW with me. He probably has a more objective view of what and how we do things.

Bill messaged me in March '21 after I commented I had not had a dive since finishing OW. At the time no one could dive at New Mexico Blue Hole unless they were with a shop due to covid. He invited my wife and I to join them on weekends they were at Blue Hole which we did several times. I mentioned I was less than satisfied with the training we got from another agency at another dive shop and I liked the small class size and personal attention he gave his students. When we were ready we went to him for AOW training. He spent plenty of extra time working with my wife who really struggled with buoyancy control and unlearning the bad habits we were taught by our OW instructors. We have honest discussions about gear without pressure to buy from him. He is more interested in creating new divers who are skilled than churning out half-trained divers and selling them gear at full retail.

I count him more as a friend than instructor now and we have begun to plan dive trips to Mexico together in the future. When we are ready for nitrox and possibly rescue training I know where I'll go.

 

[Ross19966]

I’m an avid kite surfer also. That industry is in free fall in the US as well. A look around the kite beach offers a clue. It’s rare to see a kite surfer under 40 years old. Most are over 50. It has to do with disposable income. It also seems difficult to get a genZ or millennial away from video games and social media. Our millennial daughter is convinced that she is going to make millions streaming on Twitch.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I’m an avid kite surfer also. That industry is in free fall in the US as well. A look around the kite beach offers a clue. It’s rare to see a kite surfer under 40 years old. Most are over 50. It has to do with disposable income.

Absolutely agreed on this. The younger you are, the more likely you will be saddled with debt from university. Add to that the explotion of real estate in many metropolitan areas, and not much is left over.
I went to university in the early 90s. One of my roommates was able to work part time (20 hours a week, security where he was able to study much of the time). He was just barely able to stay out of debt.
With the way that minimum wage hasn't followed increases in living expenses and tuition, that simply isn't possible at my alma mater.

It also seems difficult to get a genZ or millennial away from video games and social media. Our millennial daughter is convinced that she is going to make millions streaming on Twitch.

See above. Video games/social media are much cheaper entertainment options. Not as good obviously, but when you lack disposible income, what choice do you have?

 

[BRT]

Absolutely agreed on this. The younger you are, the more likely you will be saddled with debt from university. Add to that the explotion of real estate in many metropolitan areas, and not much is left over.
I went to university in the early 90s. One of my roommates was able to work part time (20 hours a week, security where he was able to study much of the time). He was just barely able to stay out of debt.
With the way that minimum wage hasn't followed increases in living expenses and tuition, that simply isn't possible at my alma mater.

See above. Video games/social media are much cheaper entertainment options. Not as good obviously, but when you lack disposible income, what choice do you have?

Just what is the minimum wage in Washington state?