Post-pandemic comeback? Not yet! The dive industry is still crashing.

[BRT]

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If you make $140,700 per year, do you say you make $140K or $141. This is a silly point to belabor

I didn't make sense of what you wrote, but it is your business. Wages are a cost to do business, same as equipment, supplies, etc.. If raising minimum wage means you are losing money from that employee, then you have really tight margins.

Only a dishonest person would say $15 when they knew it was really almost $16. I will be really interested in seeing you begin your business. I'm guessing complete failure.

The problem is not the difference between $15 and $16. The problem is between the $9 they might be worth and the $19 they actually cost me.

Average home price in my county is about $315k. Average home price in King county is $840K. Same minimum wage. Who does better? My employees or somebody working twice minimum in King County?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Only a dishonest person would say $15 when they knew it was really almost $16.

That's hilarious. I looked at the graph, saw it was $15 something and stopped there. BFD.

I will be really interested in seeing you begin your business. I'm guessing complete failure.

Thank you for your vote of confidence! LOL

The problem is not the difference between $15 and $16. The problem is between the $9 they might be worth and the $19 they actually cost me.

Then don't hire them. Do the work yourself.

Average home price in my county is about $315k. Average home price in King county is $840K. Same minimum wage. Who does better? My employees or somebody working twice minimum in King County?

Plenty of King County is BFE. Look at prices in the metro area.

 

[BRT]

Are you an instructor? My IDC taught me to pass the IE with demonstrating skills on my knees. It didn't teach me how to teach. I didn't get anything new from the shops from where I taught. I fortunately had mentors to help me along, but those were not from the shop that I taught at. The shops didn't care that I initially taught on the knees. The first one tried to get people to buy packages before even getting into the water. The second one didn't care. They had enough margin from mask, fins, snorkels, and gloves. They didn't care if my students were rototilling the silt while diving or if they look like they earned a GUE fundies tech pass.

Now I don't know what kind of business you run. If you are looking for only experienced people to perform the required tasks, you should already be paying above minimum wage. Why would an employee work for you if there are other better paying options? What kind of business do you run?

Yes, I pay experienced people above minimum wage. The problem is that experienced people can also sweep the floor and carry out the garbage for less $$$. It is just like what you said about when you were learning. People need to be able to work for less until they are worth more. What business are you in? Where you actually make your living? I suspect it is not scuba. I suspect family money.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Yes, I pay experienced people above minimum wage. The problem is that experienced people can also sweep the floor and carry out the garbage for less $$$. It is just like what you said about when you were learning. People need to be able to work for less until they are worth more. What business are you in? Where you actually make your living? I suspect it is not scuba. I suspect family money.

It would help if you explained what your business is.

Now, if you were to Google my name, you'd see I was a software engineer. Not a bad paying gig. It's earned me enough to put away enough. I suspect my portfolio will be at 10 figures when I retire (halfway there even with the depressed market). Fairly common in my industry. No family money yet. Nice try.

Now, what business are you in?

 

[BRT]

Long term salaries with unpaid overtime is a characteristic of many professions. In fact, it is how I was paid my entire life. I have never had a time-based wage.

• I was a school teacher/administrator for 3 decades, teaching English. My long evenings and weekends grading essays when I could have been doing fun activities is the primary reason my children looked elsewhere for careers.
• After retiring, I was an exective (Executive Director of Curriculum) for the largest online education company in the country. My annual salary made no mention of expected hours of employment, and I regularly did about 60 hours a week, and often more.

When you are working on a salary like that, it is easy to lose track of your pay rate. As a high ranking executive of the education company, I worked from home (except when traveling). While working at my desk, I would hear our weekly housekeeper come in and clean up. We were paying her for the job, not by the hour. One day I noted the time she came and the time she left and computed her hourly pay. Then I calculated mine and realized she was making more per hour than I was. She was making many times more per hour than I made as a scuba instructor.

My wife and I both work at our business. I promise you that most years we have made less than a lot of our employees. But there is no minimum wage for business owners.

I have a friend that was Superintendent of Schools here. He told me that every time he advanced in the system he make more money per year but less per hour.

 

[BRT]

It would help if you explained what your business is.

Now, if you were to Google my name, you'd see I was a software engineer. Not a bad paying gig. It's earned me enough to put away enough. I suspect my portfolio will be at 10 figures when I retire (halfway there even with the depressed market). Fairly common in my industry. No family money yet. Nice try.

Now, what business are you in?

It is easier to tell you what we don't do than what we do. We focus on automotive and general repair. We have over 30 rentals. We trim and remove trees, We do tractor repair. We weld. We have tow trucks. I am an electrician by trade and continue to do troubleshooting when others can't figure out the problem. I wrote programs for PLC's operating machinery for many years. Designing how they would work, doing the actual wiring both low and high voltage, and writing the code. I will not be a billionaire like you. But if you actually are, then you can surely afford to pay your employees $100K a year without affecting your living standard. Good for you if you do. But you won't. It is oh so easy for people in your position to tell me what I can afford to pay. But you will never run a business that consistently turns a profit unless you are paying your employees a lot less than $16/hour.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

It is easier to tell you what we don't do than what we do. We focus on automotive and general repair. We have over 30 rentals. We trim and remove trees, We do tractor repair. We weld. We have tow trucks. I am an electrician by trade and continue to do troubleshooting when others can't figure out the problem. I wrote programs for PLC's operating machinery for many years. Designing how they would work, doing the actual wiring both low and high voltage, and writing the code. I will not be a billionaire like you. But if you actually are, then you can surely afford to pay your employees $100K a year without affecting your living standard. Good for you if you do. But you won't. It is oh so easy for people in your position to tell me what I can afford to pay. But you will never run a business that consistently turns a profit unless you are paying your employees a lot less than $16/hour.

Ah, I mistyped/had a brain fart as I had 10 million in my head when I said 10 figures. My bad. 8 figures. 10 figures is a billion. So my business won't be in this country. It will be only operating for 6 months out of the year. I will pay above the minimum as I want my employees to be able to rent a decent place, have some fun during their free time, and also save a bit. I won't be exploiting people by holding a return ticket that they depend on as a means of controlling them.

I want my business to be in the black. Not lose money, that's it. It is for an enjoyable, active retirement. If it wasn't possible to do so, I wouldn't do it. I'd just spend my money diving.

 

[Centrals]

Many businesses in HK have gone bust over last couple of yrs for various reasons. I have noticed couple of dive operators in Philippines had packed up on my recent diving trip in the country. But I read on SB that an operator in Koh Lanta(Thailand) has reopened again after closing for the best part of over 2yrs. Good sign.
Overseas travelling is also picking up in HK lately so I am pretty sure unless there is another round of travel restriction, thing could be back to normal soon.

Thailand hits 10 million visitors in 2022 as tourism recovers

Thailand celebrated the arrival of its 10 millionth international visitor of 2022 on Saturday, according to the tourism authority, as the kingdom consolidated the recovery of its Covid-battered travel…

www.france24.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/photos/europe-snowless-ski-slopes-photo-scroller-1.6705657

Different story.

 

[Tracy]

But you will never run a business that consistently turns a profit unless you are paying your employees a lot less than $16/hour.

I work in a specialty mechanic field, the kids we hire straight out of high school get 15% of billed labor. The first year, most will be around 20-25 hours in a standard 40 hour week. 15% is $22 per hour. Within five years, most are billing over 30 hours in a week and at 20%. The highest is at 30% and there is no cap on billed hours.

So yes, technically they start making less than $16 per hour, usually winds up working out to $11-12 for the first few months.
If they are still at that level after a year, they tend to weed themselves out.
We have been in business over 50 years, we always turn a profit.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

What a scuba instructor makes also depends on the country you are living/working in. When I was teaching in Florida, I was making FAR more than I make now in Bali. The pay in Bali is based around the local salary rates. I can tell you that it is not even remotely close to $15/hour.

As for the industry in decline, here in Bali it is still in decline. Yes, it is rainy season but every instructor, dive center manager or bar owner I have spoken to has said it is much slower now than it was in the rainy season pre-COVID and many are struggling. They also are all hoping and praying that 2023 dry season will see a massive increase in tourism to the island. Many shops here have no divers at all for weeks at a time, some have a couple divers a day. It really depends on price and the languages spoken.

Currently there are a lot of Russians here in Amed. Some visiting (getting the hell out of their country) and others who live in Ubud that are taking trips to Amed to get away from the insanity of a place like Ubud or Canggu to just relax someplace quiet. Sadly, most of them don't dive and the ones that want to dive think the price of a Try Dive/DSD is waaaay to high while I believe it is waaaaay to low for the work I have to do.