Post-Conception Disaster: what you learned & will change

[kelemvor]

why cant the boats ban all battery charging after evening meal-say 6pm (before people retire to their cabins) and force people to bring a second batch of batteries to charge up during the day and/or a fire proof charging station.

There are easily implementable solutions that will improve safety without alienating customers like this solution would. Providing a proper safe charging box is probably the "simplest" as they could just buy a single item, install it, and problem solved. It might not be the cheapest, but I think alienating customers will cost more than this would after you count lost bookings. Installing such safety gear could be a selling point in advertisements as people become more aware of the risks.

There's probably 10 other ways to skin that cat that don't involve turning customers into adversaries.

 

[boulderjohn]

There are easily implementable solutions that will improve safety without alienating customers like this solution would. Providing a proper safe charging box is probably the "simplest" as they could just buy a single item, install it, and problem solved. It might not be the cheapest, but I think alienating customers will cost more than this would after you count lost bookings. Installing such safety gear could be a selling point in advertisements as people become more aware of the risks.

There's probably 10 other ways to skin that cat that don't involve turning customers into adversaries.

A cheaper solution would be to require passengers needing to charge such batteries bring their own fireproof charging bags. They only cost a few bucks. If they don't bring one, sell them one for $5.

 

[Manatee Diver]

A cheaper solution would be to require passengers needing to charge such batteries bring their own fireproof charging bags. They only cost a few bucks. If they don't bring one, sell them one for $5.

That could work, but it would give customers a reason to cheat the system like charging in your cabin. And you don't know the quality of the bags that they are bringing with them. Finally none of the bags are that large, I know I can't fit my can light in any of the bags (I looked for one as an added safety measure).

Also if it is a dedicated cabinet, the crew can open it up look at the batteries and see anything weird.

 

[boulderjohn]

That could work, but it would give customers a reason to cheat the system like charging in your cabin. And you don't know the quality of the bags that they are bringing with them. Finally none of the bags are that large, I know I can't fit my can light in any of the bags (I looked for one as an added safety measure).

Also if it is a dedicated cabinet, the crew can open it up look at the batteries and see anything weird.

A dedicated cabinet would be much better, no doubt about it. The only advantage to the charging bags would be that you could do it right now at no expense.

What follows will sound like a total change of topic, but it isn't. A number of years ago, there was a fatality in Cozumel when a diver ascended apart from the rest of the group and was never seen again. The diver was apparently not noticed by the group's boat and then drifted away somewhere, never to be found. There had been a number of similar fatalities there over the years, with divers drifting away unseen in the strong currents of Cozumel. I suggested that at the very least, dive operations should require that all divers carry a SMB. If the divers did not have one of their own, the operator could provide one, even charging a modest rent for it or selling it outright. My suggestion was not popular. It was challenged by those who said that such a rule would put an unreasonable financial burden on a dive operation--it could force them to go out of business because of that added cost. I pointed out that a dive operation should be able to purchase cheap ones at their costs for $20 or less, so outfitting a 6-pack boat would cost at most $120, and they could easily make a profit by charging a minimal rent or selling them at a small profit. Nope, that was not feasible. Posters insisted that divers who travel there for a week of diving would absolutely be unwilling to fork over another $5 for an SMB rental or $25 for a purchase that might save their lives. (When I last dived the Great Barrier reef on a liveaboard, we were not only required to carry SMBs, the dive operator required us all to carry the Nautilus Lifelines they provided.)

My point is that I am always amazed that both operators and divers seem adamantly unwilling to spend a relatively paltry sum to add important measures of safety. (When diving in a location where getting lost like this is possible, I carry a PLB, but I am apparently a whacko alarmist.)

 

[rjack321]

A dedicated cabinet would be much better, no doubt about it. The only advantage to the charging bags would be that you could do it right now at no expense.

Well the bags don't always actually work.

A bunch of ammo boxes or steel tool boxes get super hot on the outside, but are more reliable. And are still a very budget solution comparatively.

 

[kelemvor]

A cheaper solution would be to require passengers needing to charge such batteries bring their own fireproof charging bags. They only cost a few bucks. If they don't bring one, sell them one for $5.

You'd have to find a way to also enforce only charging outside/on deck. Those lipo bags emit all the smoke when there's a batt fire inside them and that may very well kill the passengers if it happens in the bunk area.

You could prevent charging in the bunks by simply not having electrical outlets in the bunk area. If you've already got them, then just remove the fuse on that circuit.

Really, if the regulations allowed, I think it could work. Higher end boats could provide a nice multi-user charger box system. Budget boats could just provide a topside area and require (or provide) bags.

Well the bags don't always actually work.

I was surprised they work at all to be honest and my gut reaction was to post "what a horrible idea". but then I searched for videos of lipo fires inside the bags and some of them seem to work well enough. I'm sure it amounts to what the bag is made from and how it's made. Also the size/quantity of batts inside it would be a significant factor. I guess if the boat provides lipo bags, that's one way to ensure quality is correct. I could foresee some kind of certification being issued to suitable bags. Maybe UL could be extended to cover them, maybe USCG could create something.

Personally I use only bat-safe boxes to charge my batteries so I don't have any experience with the cheaper bags. https://www.bat-safe.com/

 

[lowwall]

You could prevent charging in the bunks by simply not having electrical outlets in the bunk area. If you've already got them, then just remove the fuse on that circuit.

Would make the boat unusable for CPAP users. And what about charging your phone/kindle/laptop? Do you really want everyone unplugging your strobes so they can top up their iPads?

 

[kelemvor]

Would make the boat unusable for CPAP users. And what about charging your phone/kindle/laptop? Do you really want everyone unplugging your strobes so they can top up their iPads?

Are CPAP users on dive boats really that common? There are a number of battery powered CPAP devices on the market. That could be a solution. The boat could also take a page from land based hotels. Generally only certain rooms are ADA accessible. They could have a bunk or two that was specially outfitted with power for a CPAP.

As for people unplugging your device to plug theirs in... There's a million ways to skin that cat. None of them will be perfect. Maybe some form of public humiliation for the offending party?

 

[scubadada]

Are CPAP users on dive boats really that common? There are a number of battery powered CPAP devices on the market. That could be a solution. The boat could also take a page from land based hotels. Generally only certain rooms are ADA accessible. They could have a bunk or two that was specially outfitted with power for a CPAP.

As for people unplugging your device to plug theirs in... There's a million ways to skin that cat. None of them will be perfect. Maybe some form of public humiliation for the offending party?

I have been on a liveaboard at least 3 times with guests using CPAP. Twice, these people ended up being my roommate, individuals not known to me prior to the trip. One trip was to the Galapagos and one to the Cayman Islands. The third time was in a bunk situation in which I knew the individual, but not that he used CPAP. I think this may be far more common than you would think.

 

[lowwall]

I use one. Liveaboard divers tend to be older, financially well off, regularly see a doctor, and are comfortable with technology. All of which are correlated with higher CPAP usage.

Being overweight is the other big contributor. There is certainly no shortage of overweight divers.