Post-Conception Disaster: what you learned & will change

[lostsheep]

I would never give my money to any company that, in effect, murdered 33 people because of their negligence. My hope is they go out of business.

As I said before:

... The captain will likely be charged with involuntary manslaughter, not murder...for a reason.

 

[scubadada]

I would never give my money to any company that, in effect, murdered 33 people because of their negligence. My hope is they go out of business.

34, including their staff member

 

[Swedinsidemount]

Yah there should always be someone on standby in "hot-spots". Galley, engine room, aft storage.

 

[John Bantin]

...and was audited in great detail by the Aggressor VP of Operations, Larry Speaker, the first week of May, 2016, when I was on board for a week on the BDE route. I don't understand what the point of your comment is here, Aggressor bears no responsibility?

When Peter Hughes chartered Oyster to make it Moon Dancer, to his dismay, I told him the Egyptians would break his heart. They have a habit of telling you what they think you want to hear and then do it their own way. He even put his own captain onboard but the crew only answered to the Egyptian captain.

 

[scubadada]

When Peter Hughes chartered Oyster to make it Moon Dancer, to his dismay, I told him the Egyptians would break his heart. They have a habit of telling you what they think you want to hear and then do it their own way. He even put his own captain onboard but the crew only answered to the Egyptian captain.

So, in your opinion, does Aggressor bear responsibility in this case?

 

[boulderjohn]

When Peter Hughes chartered Oyster to make it Moon Dancer, to his dismay, I told him the Egyptians would break his heart. They have a habit of telling you what they think you want to hear and then do it their own way. He even put his own captain onboard but the crew only answered to the Egyptian captain.

So, in your opinion, does Aggressor bear responsibility in this case?

Taking Scubadada's question a step further, are you saying that anyone chartering a boat in Egypt, including a boat in the Aggressor fleet, should assume that no standard safety protocols will be followed, that the crew will lie about it, that Aggressor's management knows this, and that Aggressor is in turn lying when they assure potential customers that safety protocols are in place and ill be followed?

 

[John Bantin]

Taking Scubadada's question a step further, are you saying that anyone chartering a boat, including a boat in the Aggressor fleet, in Egypt, should assume that no standard protocols will be followed, that the crew will lie about it, that Aggressor's management knows this, and that Aggressor is in turn lying when they assure potential customers that safety protocols are in place and ill be followed?

They don't know. Once Larry (We've stayed at each other's homes) turned his back, it would be back to business as usual. In some cultures, lying and cheating is an admired characteristic. In ours, we cover it up. You'll notice my earlier post was approved of by an American/Libyan diver.
The Suzanna fire was very badly managed after the event IMHO.

 

[boulderjohn]

They don't know. Once Larry (We've stayed at each other's homes) turned his back, it would be back to business as usual. In some cultures, lying and cheating is an admired characteristic. In ours, we cover it up. You'll notice my earlier post was approved of by an American/Libyan diver.

There are those who admire it in our culture as well.

 

[lowwall]

[H]e finally said in nearly so many words that he thought Heinlein was one of the greatest writers ever, one of his heroes, so it was not possible for him to have ever done anything that was not excellent.

Guess they hadn't published Friday yet.

 

[living4experiences]

Will assume most everyone knows I'm talking about the Truth Aquatic's boat Conception that suffered a fire resulting in the deaths of all 33 passengers and 1 crewman. Other threads have gone into specifics of what happened, what's suspected to've happened, what should be done in response to what happened, etc... My aim for this thread is different.

I'd like to know first what you personally learned new from this situation, and secondly what, if anything, you will do differently in planning and accepting future trips, particularly live-aboard trips but not just those. I'll start.

What I Learned​

1.) I learned that in U.S. waters boats in that class are legally supposed to have a 'roving watch' at all times when even one passenger might be in a berth, which practically tends to be 24/7 while underway. It's an issue in quickly detecting fires before escalation, or when boats come loose from moorings (even in benign conditions, a mooring could come loose and a boat drift over and hit a reef).

2.) That is often not practiced. Also be mindset vessels outside U.S. waters might be under so such mandate (or if so, do they follow it)?

3.) When the bunk/stateroom area is 'confined,' as it was in a large room below deck on the Conception, it is preferred there be 2 really useable paths of egress from it, ideally leading to different points, ideally to open deck (e.g.: not both to an enclosed salon).

4.) Sometimes the 2nd method may be an overhead hatch that's hard to reach and wouldn't accommodate some obese people, or a bunch of people needing rapid evacuation. Due to practical consideration in boat construction and regulations, it is not practical to just 'cut a big hole and install stairs' to add a great 2nd path to a pre-existing boat.

5.) Once inflamed, boat fires can escalate much faster than I knew, creating such intense heat as to be impassable. I'd thought if smoke inhalation didn't get you while asleep, surely you could run through (albeit burned). Not necessarily so.

6.) Rechargeable lithium batteries on chargers can be a fire hazard and generate intense heat...but I still don't know just what the risk is. Ideally a charging station would be in some fireproof metal container...but this isn't common practice.

7.) Smoke alarm systems vary in quality and not every boat setup is as reliable as one might hope.

8.) Boats vary in safety briefings, including whether they mention a 2nd means of egress.

9.) A change in boating requirements could effectively shut down some boats, or lead to substantial increases in trip costs (specifics unclear).

What I Will Do Differently​

1.) I look for that 2nd exit path. In one case, at the end of a hall I saw an overhead item I think was a hatch. Couldn't have reached it. Didn't ask crew. I look around, but I'm not confrontational.

2.) Look for more safety-preparedness specifics in trip reviews, though I doubt it'll change why willingness to dive with otherwise reputable op.s for now.

In summary, I learned several things, but doubt it'll change my trip booking habits for now. I'm more aware of the risks, but not sure how the risk of serious injury or death compares to other risks I take (e.g.: of drowning on a dive, immersion pulmonary edema, serious fall getting in or out in a shore dive, fall with injury onboard). The Conception disaster was horrible...much like the accounts I've read of great white shark attacks, and the pain of loved ones after a diver dies (e.g.: likely from confusion related to narcosis and wandering off at depth, or simply never coming back).

What about the rest of you? Is the absence of a reliable roving watch now a deal-breaker? What about a good 2nd means of exit from bunks/staterooms? One diver mentioned he and wife paid extra for a stateroom that's not below deck; what are you willing to pay extra for that?

Having just returned from a trip to Socorro on the Nautilus Explorer, I have re-evaluated my choice of cabin for the next trip. My room was below deck and the escape hatch was just outside my door. The stairwell down the hall was an open exit to the dive deck. There is no door to go through. I don't know how much strength is required to lift the hatch or if you press a button and it opens automatically. We were told there was a 24-hr roving watchman/woman, but unless I roamed the ship during the night, I wouldn't know to what extent roving would be. I will pay the extra fee to have a room on the upper deck for a better chance of survival should I need to make a quick exit. In the grand scheme of risk/benefit analysis, I'm probably more likely to have an in-water or onboard injury or accident than having to bail from the ship, so this is not a big concern for me.

I am now making it a conscious practice to not leave my devices charging in my cabin when I'm not there and completely unplug my surge protection plug extender when I'm sleeping. I always travel with a portable flashlight for the bedside, whether I'm in a hotel or on a boat, in case of emergency.

Having said all that, live-aboard diving is not my favorite, but I use it as a means to get to a destination otherwise unreachable by day boat, such as Socorro or Guadalupe. As a single traveler, I pay a ridiculous single penalty for my own room. For the high cost per day to live in cramped quarters, even in my own room, it's not a great option for a vacation experience. On a one to five star rating, my last live-aboard experience was a two out of five stars, but the dive experience on that same live-aboard was five stars. Before I go veer off on another tangent, I'll leave it at that.