Odins don't freeze due to its upstream design. Additionaly, there has been no failure to date, according to US Navy, of an Odin.
I don't believe that the US Navy monitors sport or tech diving. There have been so many thousands of dives on Poseidons that they aren't aware of or even care about. Well, not because they don't care, I'm sure, but it would be impractical to collect such data. Certainly no one's ever asked ME about my dives with my Poseidons.
A more relevant point would be, what DOES happen when an upstream reg does fail?? It's not hard to figure this out, it's like math. Which is better, a reg that fails open or one that fails closed?
They don't have to be expenisve to service. You can find techs on the web that will service them for the same price as a "normal" reg. Ask Michael Rainone.
There will be many places around the world that will not have the tools or the parts to service or repair these regs and I've met a lot of unhappy Poseidon divers renting regs in faraway places, sometimes when they just crack the valve a little too fast and their Poseidons might have to be rebuilt in a place that can't rebuild them.
There is no need to run an Odin or a Cyclon's IP at 180PSI.
The Odin's IP is recommended to be set at 145 - 152, the Cyklon 5000 at 174 psi. Forgetting the Odin which fails closed, modern regs have a much lower setting from around 120 to about 140-50 at the top end than the Cyklon at 174, a ridiculous pressure. There is just no reason for the added pressure, the Poseidons are old technology. Instead of a nice even flow of air, you get that "reassuring" blast of air, but the volume is the same.
It's the same thinking with high pressure cylinders. Why? You can get the same volume in a low-pressure cylinder so WHY would you subject your regs to these high pressures?
They breathe minimally "wet" when not level. The pro side to this is that you can breathe them in any position-maybe wet, but you CAN breathe. For this reason alone, they make an excellent choice as a backup reg.
I think that's the reason why it's a terrible backup. Why add a problem? You don't know what condition a buddy will be in when you are deep or far back and with a mouth full of water, unable to breathe and fighting off panic, that "wet" breathing Poseidon might be the last straw. Do your buddy a favor, hand him a reg has good volume but that also breathes dry.
All this talk about replacing the cover on a reg. Ask Bob3 what he would use in a mucky, murky environment? Cyclon no doubt. If you want to remove the diaphram of a reg.-holding that little thing underwater, then trying to put it back in correctly-then that's fine. Here's a better idea: Bring along another Odin 2nd stage. If the first one get's dirty, don't go cleaning it. Just unscrew it and place the fresh new one on.
There was a time when the Cyklon was the regulator of choice because there really was no other choice, but today there are a LOT of good regs that don't have Poseidon's fatal flaws. I would NEVER recommend Poseidons to a budding tech diver and really, why put anyone through it?
Poseidons were the default when its faults could be accepted in exchange for the volume of gas they delivered. There is just no longer a reason for such a trade-off.
You even appear to concede each point. The Odin fails closed, the Cyklon 5000 has a much higher IP at 174 than any reg in regular service and both regs breathe a little wet. Knowing that there are regs out there that have none of these problems and that cost less to buy parts for, why would you recommend a Poseidon?
I own an Apeks TX50 and a Poseidon Odin. Both are great and I wouldn't say the Apeks is better or worse than the Odin-just different.
I would be interested in buying your Cyclon 5000, jjoelm.
Make a serious offer, I'll sell it and the Odin. Or better yet, I'll trade for your TX50.
JoeL
I don't believe that the US Navy monitors sport or tech diving. There have been so many thousands of dives on Poseidons that they aren't aware of or even care about. Well, not because they don't care, I'm sure, but it would be impractical to collect such data. Certainly no one's ever asked ME about my dives with my Poseidons.
A more relevant point would be, what DOES happen when an upstream reg does fail?? It's not hard to figure this out, it's like math. Which is better, a reg that fails open or one that fails closed?
They don't have to be expenisve to service. You can find techs on the web that will service them for the same price as a "normal" reg. Ask Michael Rainone.
There will be many places around the world that will not have the tools or the parts to service or repair these regs and I've met a lot of unhappy Poseidon divers renting regs in faraway places, sometimes when they just crack the valve a little too fast and their Poseidons might have to be rebuilt in a place that can't rebuild them.
There is no need to run an Odin or a Cyclon's IP at 180PSI.
The Odin's IP is recommended to be set at 145 - 152, the Cyklon 5000 at 174 psi. Forgetting the Odin which fails closed, modern regs have a much lower setting from around 120 to about 140-50 at the top end than the Cyklon at 174, a ridiculous pressure. There is just no reason for the added pressure, the Poseidons are old technology. Instead of a nice even flow of air, you get that "reassuring" blast of air, but the volume is the same.
It's the same thinking with high pressure cylinders. Why? You can get the same volume in a low-pressure cylinder so WHY would you subject your regs to these high pressures?
They breathe minimally "wet" when not level. The pro side to this is that you can breathe them in any position-maybe wet, but you CAN breathe. For this reason alone, they make an excellent choice as a backup reg.
I think that's the reason why it's a terrible backup. Why add a problem? You don't know what condition a buddy will be in when you are deep or far back and with a mouth full of water, unable to breathe and fighting off panic, that "wet" breathing Poseidon might be the last straw. Do your buddy a favor, hand him a reg has good volume but that also breathes dry.
All this talk about replacing the cover on a reg. Ask Bob3 what he would use in a mucky, murky environment? Cyclon no doubt. If you want to remove the diaphram of a reg.-holding that little thing underwater, then trying to put it back in correctly-then that's fine. Here's a better idea: Bring along another Odin 2nd stage. If the first one get's dirty, don't go cleaning it. Just unscrew it and place the fresh new one on.
There was a time when the Cyklon was the regulator of choice because there really was no other choice, but today there are a LOT of good regs that don't have Poseidon's fatal flaws. I would NEVER recommend Poseidons to a budding tech diver and really, why put anyone through it?
Poseidons were the default when its faults could be accepted in exchange for the volume of gas they delivered. There is just no longer a reason for such a trade-off.
You even appear to concede each point. The Odin fails closed, the Cyklon 5000 has a much higher IP at 174 than any reg in regular service and both regs breathe a little wet. Knowing that there are regs out there that have none of these problems and that cost less to buy parts for, why would you recommend a Poseidon?
I own an Apeks TX50 and a Poseidon Odin. Both are great and I wouldn't say the Apeks is better or worse than the Odin-just different.
I would be interested in buying your Cyclon 5000, jjoelm.
Make a serious offer, I'll sell it and the Odin. Or better yet, I'll trade for your TX50.
JoeL