Pool session gone awry...

[Boatlawyer]

Buddy breathing ascent is AFTER cesa ?

Surely its better to ascend in a controlled slow manner and if needed perform stops than just to "go for it" ?

I believe the buddy breathing ascent referred to is breathing from one regulator (no alternate air source), i.e. passing reg back and forth. I am told that it is more complicated, and therefore dangerous, in an emergency than cesa.

 

[miketsp]

I echo String's comment:
Buddy breathing is after CESA?????

Having practiced both I would much rather do a slow BB controlled ascent than a CESA.
Why risk getting bent if there is air available?

Just watch for uncontrolled ascents and the diver without the reg must keep airway open all the time he's ascending. The important thing is to go slow, there's no rush.

 

[fmw625]

Dumping weights was not part of swimming ascent. I was dumping weights as an emergency procedure, as taught (I was overweight with 6 # now use 4#) to help me get back to surface with 1 fin. Since then with less weight, I have learned how to use 1 fin and still get above water to inflate my BCD manually.

I had broken the surface and put 1 breath in my BCD. After submersing to kick for second breath 1 fin came off. Couldn't get back to surface.

The point was that I had plenty of air in my tank and a perfectly good regulator. I was so involved with completing the OOA swimming ascent that I forgot about all the air I still had in my tank. The husband could have been also locked on OOA and forgot also.

 

[Diver0001]

Buddy breathing ascent is AFTER cesa ?

Surely its better to ascend in a controlled slow manner and if needed perform stops than just to "go for it" ?

Well......the fact is that the statistics are showing that your chances of survival are better with CESA than with BB ascent and that BB ascent puts two divers at increased risk instead of one.

One could rightly question *why* this fact shows up in the statistics.....but that's maybe another discussion entirely.

R..

 

[Iruka]

The order for ascents given, with CESA preceeding buddy breathing, is the correct PADI order. Whether that is the same order any particular individual would prefer is, of course, another matter. I haven't actually seen a rationale for this order, but I'm assuming it's because of the potential for a double fatality as 2 people, in a panicked situation, fight over the same regulator. Back in college, I was a springboard diver, and a team-mate of mine, while doing either an OW or (possibly) an AOW class, had some problem at depth, and both he & his instructor died. I don't think the cause was determined; there was some speculation of the regulator freezing up in cold water, and then a panicked OOA situation, but I don't really know.

This reminds me of a disagreement I've seen regarding alternate (octopus) use...if I have someone diving with me who's quite a bit faster on air than me, I will sometimes "loan" them my octopus during the dive so we can have a little more time. I do this early enough so that they have enough air to make a safe ascent/safety stop on their OWN air....I never do this to extend a dive for someone whose air is too low to safely complete the ascent/safety stop. Personally, I'd rather (if I HAD to) be in an OOA emergency with someone who's often used an octopus in a NON emergency situation, rather than someone who hasn't ever used it since his/her OW course years earlier.

 

[rainbowangel]

Wow!

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Everyone's advice is definitely eye-opening.

1) As for the drill putting everything together and donning it in darkness, that's an awesome idea. I'm going to give it a try sometime in the next few days to see how well I do.

2) You know you messed up spouse knows you messed up and now spouse wants to tell instructor so s/he can tell you that you messed up. - This isn't the case at all... I wasn't out to 'tell' on him... my concern was get the OWI's advice on how to prevent the bad knee-jerk reaction that occurredm because I want to do everything possible to help prevent this from happening somewhere that an injury would more likely occur.

3) He did purge the reg (by blowing hard into it)... he said that he was still "sucking water" even after clearing it twice. I tried breathing off my octo (the same one he had) upsidedown after it was mentioned here that you should be able to, and I didn't have any problems other than bubbles in the face... So I think he simply didn't clear it well enough (?) and a little surprise caused a lot of panic. Not 1000% sure there though.

4) I had no idea that practicing 'unsupervised' was frowned upon. Generally there were instructors popping in and out of the room with the pool to check on everyone using the pool at the time... and our intentions were to practice, practice, practice... to the point that we are 100% comfortable with everything we've been taught. We've spent 25-30 hours in the pool over the past few weeks... A friend who is being certified through another agency/dive shop spent about 6-7 hours total in the pool before going on his OW checkout dives. I just personally feel better that I'd be able to handle a problem that arises than someone who has only been in the water for 1/4 or 1/5 the time I have.... : )

5) We decided not to specifically talk to the instructor about the incident. I did however mention a similar situation about a diver bolting for the top... about what to do, how to tell when you think someone is going to... and what, if anything you should do... Kinda to get a handle on things, make myself feel more comfortable with what I should do if something like this ever happens again... but letting the hubby keep his pride. I'm also looking into taking (and convincing the hubby to take) a Stress and Rescue course once we gain a little more experience. Something that I think will help in troves.

Thanks again for all the interest, everyone!

 

[wedivebc]

Wow!

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Everyone's advice is definitely eye-opening.

1) As for the drill putting everything together and donning it in darkness, that's an awesome idea. I'm going to give it a try sometime in the next few days to see how well I do.

2) You know you messed up spouse knows you messed up and now spouse wants to tell instructor so s/he can tell you that you messed up. - This isn't the case at all... I wasn't out to 'tell' on him... my concern was get the OWI's advice on how to prevent the bad knee-jerk reaction that occurredm because I want to do everything possible to help prevent this from happening somewhere that an injury would more likely occur.

3) He did purge the reg (by blowing hard into it)... he said that he was still "sucking water" even after clearing it twice. I tried breathing off my octo (the same one he had) upsidedown after it was mentioned here that you should be able to, and I didn't have any problems other than bubbles in the face... So I think he simply didn't clear it well enough (?) and a little surprise caused a lot of panic. Not 1000% sure there though.

4) I had no idea that practicing 'unsupervised' was frowned upon. Generally there were instructors popping in and out of the room with the pool to check on everyone using the pool at the time... and our intentions were to practice, practice, practice... to the point that we are 100% comfortable with everything we've been taught. We've spent 25-30 hours in the pool over the past few weeks... A friend who is being certified through another agency/dive shop spent about 6-7 hours total in the pool before going on his OW checkout dives. I just personally feel better that I'd be able to handle a problem that arises than someone who has only been in the water for 1/4 or 1/5 the time I have.... : )

5) We decided not to specifically talk to the instructor about the incident. I did however mention a similar situation about a diver bolting for the top... about what to do, how to tell when you think someone is going to... and what, if anything you should do... Kinda to get a handle on things, make myself feel more comfortable with what I should do if something like this ever happens again... but letting the hubby keep his pride. I'm also looking into taking (and convincing the hubby to take) a Stress and Rescue course once we gain a little more experience. Something that I think will help in troves.

Thanks again for all the interest, everyone!

Glad you posted this. I think we all learned something from it.
The guy who taught me 99% of everything I know about tech diving commented after a really bad training session ,(at least I had screwed up really bad) "Well that was good" I said wadda you mean? I f$%^ed it all up. He smiled and said yeah but did you learn anything?

 

[String]

I believe the buddy breathing ascent referred to is breathing from one regulator (no alternate air source), i.e. passing reg back and forth. I am told that it is more complicated, and therefore dangerous, in an emergency than cesa.

Its not THAT difficult to do !. In my view a calm controlled ascent, still breathing and possibly making any needed stops is far far safer than just bolting to the surface from depth which is what CESA is.

 

[Boatlawyer]

Its not THAT difficult to do !. In my view a calm controlled ascent, still breathing and possibly making any needed stops is far far safer than just bolting to the surface from depth which is what CESA is.

Hey, I don't make the news, I just report it. As previous posters have said, risk of panic and danger to two divers is probably the reasoning for PADI's position.

 

[String]

Going by PADIs warped logic in that case better use CESA as a first choice as someone could endanger another diver going for an octopus or ripping a main reg out of the mouth.

The dumbing down of diving and liability culture emerging is really really getting to me.