sunkmail
Contributor
I like the oxycheq button gauge - big enough to see easily, but not enough to get in the way.
It's much better than another brand (don't recall which one) I have on another tank with a similar size face.
Pony Setup
- Thread starter Troy32
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I like the oxycheq button gauge - big enough to see easily, but not enough to get in the way.
It's much better than another brand (don't recall which one) I have on another tank with a similar size face.
NudeDiver
Contributor
Looks like the one at the bottom of this page:
Air-SPG
What about this one:
http://caveadventurers.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=29&products_id=316
advertised as being big enough to read....
Air-SPG
What about this one:
http://caveadventurers.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=29&products_id=316
advertised as being big enough to read....
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First, most BCs don't rig any sort of pony well. They are to loose fitting and don't have the D rings correctly located. So, while looking for a pony you might go ahead and get some real diving equipment, a BP/wing with Hog harness. A 13 cf bottle is enough capacity, unfortunately the short dumpy stature of the thing simply defies a good fit slinging it. Now, it is clear, you want to sling it at the bottom of your BC jacket on the front. That sounds to me about as good as walking around with an anvil tied to my waist. Every, EVERY, such outfit I have seen rigged that way was pretty poor with the cross belly slung pony bottle banging along the reef or dragging in the breeze.
Second, given the current travel climate with over charges for basic luggage I doubt you would be able to transport a pony larger than 19cf. I have carried my 19. The Luxfer 19 is a perfect length for side slinging and it handles well underwater and is of the correct buoyancy, it goes unnoticed tucked under the arm. A 13 cf with a tank mount might be a good alternative for you. A variety of tank mounts can be found with a little searching.
N
Honestly, I don't recall ever having seen one. The tank-integrated first stage market is very small, and it is quite likely there is not sufficient demand for the product. Divers requiring environmentally-sealed first stage regulators are more likely to want their pony/stage regulators *not* tank-integrated, as that would seriously limit their usefulness. Being able to move the pony/stage reg(s) between different cylinders is unquestionably useful.
As I see it (which is not to discount your opinion), wanting a tank-integrated pony reg for reliability purposes may not be *quite* as valid a reason as you have considered it. The probability of a situation arising in which you have to go to the pony followed by an O-ring failure *during* the ascent is minuscule. (You could also go DIN on the pony if you don't trust yoke O-rings.) If you would happen to have an O-ring failure at any other time, it would not be a safety issue (although it would, obviously, signal the end of the dive). The question of protection and maintenance of a tank-integrated regulator is also a concept worthy of consideration.
*If* the pony is long enough, it should be very simple. First, take a length of line more than twice the height of the pony. Drape it around the neck such that the ends are of equal length. At or just above the break of the shoulder (i.e. where the cylindrical sidewall meets the curve up to the neck), tie a simple overhand knot through the eye of a trigger snap or bolt snap (i.e. a clip with a swivel eye). Lay the line flat along the sidewall, and just below the base of the cylinder, tie another clip in. (Use an appropriate knot; then trim and dress the ends.)
Now, take two lengths of narrow bicycle inner tube and cut them to just slightly longer than the circumference of the cylinder. Procure two stainless steel "hose clamps" of sufficient size to fit around the cylinder. Lay one length of inner tube around the cylinder just below the break (you can use a small piece of tape to close the loop). drape the line with the bolt snaps over the inner tube ring along whichever side will make the regulator, hoses, and gauges stick out the right direction when it's slung. Place a hose clamp around the cylinder, over the inner tube section and sling line, then tighten it all the way down. Repeat with a second length of tube and hose clamp right at the base or wherever it needs to be for the dimensions of your cylinder. With two clips attached thusly, one right at the break of the shoulder, you should be ready to sling. Just clip on and go.
Now, let me put in my two cents about slinging: Slinging along your left front side from an upper D-ring to a hip D-ring is likely to be *much* more pleasant than slinging across hip-to-hip. With the cylinder perpendicular to your direction of swimming, it'll produce much more drag. Slinging it aligned with your direction of travel works out *much* better when you're swimming along underwater. That said, if you'd like to unclip the top and reclip it to your right hip D-ring when exiting the water, that's perfectly fine. I just would *not* recommend it underwater, unless you're a public safety diver doing blackwater search and recovery, in which case you have no use for swimming efficiency (you're probably crawling most of the time, anyway).
You'll have to see whether the 13cf cylinder is sufficiently long to sling on your BC. I have a 19cf on which I have to have the lower clip and clamp right at the base in order for it to fit the D-ring spacing on my jacket BC. A 13cf cylinder would not be sufficiently long to bridge the gap, which would pretty much prevent me from being able to sling it on that BC.
If I recall my observations from last weekend, there is a 13cf brushed aluminum pony bottle sitting upright on the floor in my LDS at this very moment. I'm pretty sure you could have your LDS order what you need directly from the supplier, if you have a particular preference. (It may be a bit more for shipping, but you can get what you want.)
Unlike most of the other responses, I will not try to politic you into choosing something else. I chose a 19cf pony because I wanted to have *ample* supply for an ascent with stops. My calculations showed that a 19cf pony would be sufficient for an ascent (with deep and shallow stops) from 115 fsw with a highly-inflated consumption rate, which was my personal requirement. Equally important was the aforementioned geometric consideration. The 13cf was just plain stubby -- anything shorter than a 19cf wouldn't even have enough height to bungee the reg hose without it hanging off.
I also have a 30cf (picked up on the cheap, just because), which feels noticeably larger than my 19cf. For all my normal, recreational diving, I dive the 19cf, and it's never felt in the way (slung shoulder-to-waist on my BC, and now shoulder-to-hip on my backplate rig). It's your decision, of course, but if you have opportunity to try diving an AL13 and an AL19, it might be worth the air to see how they actually feel underwater.
Correction: It *is* a Catalina 13cf bottle, but it's not brushed aluminum. The one they have is... I'd describe it as "metallic dark grey". (It's almost like a very dark "clear coat" over a brushed finish -- you can just about make out the brushed finish through the wet-looking graphite-colored paint.) They're selling it for just under $130.
If you're concerned about that, then get a DIN valve and 1st stage. FWIW, I've never seen a k-valve o ring blow during a dive.
Also, as far as not directly answering your questions - most of us have been around a while and diving a lot. We've all made mistakes in our purchases. We're just trying to save you from making a mistake we may have made. Learn from experience.
As for the button gauges, here's a link that shows the gauge in comparison to a quarter.
-hh
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If you're dead set on an AL13 pony, I live probably less than 50 miles from where you're at and I have an AL13 pony (yoke K-valve) ...and a ScubaPro Mk2 with button gage... that I'm not using anymore that you're welcome to borrow to try before you buy. I'm pretty sure that its hydro is still current, but it does need a 2008 VIP.
DIN or Yoke? IIRC, there is an environmental kit available for the Mk2; I just don't have it.
While I'd have to see the BC before commenting, from the description of "2 lower" D-rings, it sounds like trouble. In general, you want to get the one end tucked up under the arm. I first tried slinging the AL13 and amongst other things, found it wasn't particularly compatible with carrying an UW camera, so I ended up rigging mine with a stainless steel "PonEase" bracket and accepted the entanglement hazard (not that I did much penetration of NJ wrecks).
Around 1/2 the yellow paint is already gone on mine. Just spend 20 minutes with a putty knife and steel wool to finish the job
I used to believe that too. The fallacy is that any OOA will increase stress rates which can easily quadruple your SAC. As such, the capacity for a direct ascent from 100fsw becomes a compromise, even in warmwater.
9 minutes at 100fsw from only 13 ft^3 requires a SAC of 0.36 or better. Are you achiving this SAC rate now under no stress in coldwater?
In any event, what is possible to do under no stress and low SAC becomes a different story when one becomes stressed from having an OOA that's caused you to switch to your bailout.
If we work backwards from what is "possible", and making the standard assumption of a 4x rise in SAC when under stress, as per the classical rec.scuba FAQ bailout table model (orginally by Dave Waller) for a 100fsw bailout with 3 minute safety stop, if your normal day-to-day SAC is 0.375 ft^3/min, you'll use 12.58 ft^3 of air in your AL13...which means that if your AL13 started absolutely full at 3000psi, you're at 100psi remaining.
BUT... the above model only assumes 30 seconds at 100fsw before making an ascent at 60ft/sec. If you want more bottom time or to slow down your ascent to the 30ft/sec that dive computers like, you're toast. For example, for just the slower ascent rate, you'll need more air (18.89ft^3) or to drop your unstressed SAC even lower (to ~0.25 ft^3/min).
Finally, having done a couple hundred dives with a 13 pony, I can assure you that you'll get lazy after awhile and be less meticulous about your starting pressure. Afterall, after a few days of on/off's of the regulator on the pony (and a small squirt of air for the dust cap) your tank won't be at 3000psi anymore...soon enough you'll be starting with 2800psi (or less). As such, to plan that the tank is always 100% full is also a path to contingency planning failure.
True enough, but the real question is if you want to spend $200 and get an 80% solution, or spend $201 and get a 90% solution. Your choice.
-hh
diveandclimb
Contributor
The OP is clearly and irrationally set on a 13cf pony despite the suggestions and logic of more experience divers who actually use pony bottles. Just give up on trying to convince him to spend ten buck more for a bigger bottle which could save his life and let him learn the hard way. It sound like a pony is not really needed anyway given how he is diving.
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