Pony Bottles on NJ Charters?

[ScubaFeenD]

What do you consider redundancy?

A slung aluminum 40 or 80. Completely separate. While I still dont believe it is necessary, with appropriate gas planning, this would make the most sense if a boat required "redundancy."

Last night a friend read this post and we had a discussion about my assumptions and the reality of diving on a NJ dive boat. So let me clear up my position a bit. I assume a pony bottle is a small (30cuft on avg) bottle attached as a separate bottle to the backgas bottle--not a slung stage/deco bottle. I suppose I should have highlight my extreme distaste for this form of "redundancy," but i wasnt clear on my position.

Further, as mentioned earlier in the thread, i ab of the opinion that a team focus, proper planning, and situational awareness would prevent any need for "redundancy." However, i do realize that may jersey divers are solo divers, in which case an actually redundant air source is not unreasonable, if done correctly. Do i think a magic regulator stemming from a bottle strapped to your backgas, that you cant see or manage, is a good idea? no. Do i think that a bottle that you can see, manage, and manipulate is a better idea? In all cases yes.

I am not a certified solo diver, nor am I ready to undertake solo diving at this point, so I admit my knowledge and experience on such dives limits my ability to comment completely on preparation for solo diving--although I think it should include MUCH MUCH more than just 30-40 extra cu ft of gas.

Sadly the rules on jersey boats dont accommodate team divers--they were not unfriendly, but clearly unaware of the mentality. Sorry if my initial posts were unclear because of my biases toward team diving.

 

[gsk3]

Never quite understood why doubles were acceptable as "redundancy." In independent doubles (no isolation manifold) you only have redundancy on the first dive, and if you have isolated doubles then redundancy just = more gas than you will probably need...on your first dive. At least isolated doubles can allow you to address a problem on one post or the other, but the dive ops dont seem to care much if you are diving independent doubles or not.

Most people who dive independent doubles seem to breath them down equally throughout. So they're redundant on the second dive too.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

Most people who dive independent doubles seem to breath them down equally throughout. So they're redundant on the second dive too.

Interesting. I did not see that on our trip.

 

[gsk3]

Interesting. I did not see that on our trip.

One of my regular buddies at Dutch likes independents and that is his practice. I've seen it described many times on various boards as well. Not sure what people were doing on our trip; I was too excited about all the bass

 

[Tanked]

Sadly the rules on jersey boats dont accommodate team divers--they were not unfriendly, but clearly unaware of the mentality.

I have been out several times and observed groups of divers working as a team. Several other Divemasters, instructors, and dive boat captains that I know are very aware that type of mentality.

 

[Scott L]

Sadly the rules on jersey boats dont accommodate team divers--they were not unfriendly, but clearly unaware of the mentality. Sorry if my initial posts were unclear because of my biases toward team diving.

In fairness, I cannot imagine too many charters anywhere having insta buddies available for proper team diving...

 

[dumpsterDiver]

A slung aluminum 40 or 80. Completely separate. While I still dont believe it is necessary, with appropriate gas planning, this would make the most sense if a boat required "redundancy."

Last night a friend read this post and we had a discussion about my assumptions and the reality of diving on a NJ dive boat. So let me clear up my position a bit. I assume a pony bottle is a small (30cuft on avg) bottle attached as a separate bottle to the backgas bottle--not a slung stage/deco bottle. I suppose I should have highlight my extreme distaste for this form of "redundancy," but i wasnt clear on my position.

Further, as mentioned earlier in the thread, i ab of the opinion that a team focus, proper planning, and situational awareness would prevent any need for "redundancy." However, i do realize that may jersey divers are solo divers, in which case an actually redundant air source is not unreasonable, if done correctly. Do i think a magic regulator stemming from a bottle strapped to your backgas, that you cant see or manage, is a good idea? no. Do i think that a bottle that you can see, manage, and manipulate is a better idea? In all cases yes.

I am not a certified solo diver, nor am I ready to undertake solo diving at this point, so I admit my knowledge and experience on such dives limits my ability to comment completely on preparation for solo diving--although I think it should include MUCH MUCH more than just 30-40 extra cu ft of gas.

Sadly the rules on jersey boats dont accommodate team divers--they were not unfriendly, but clearly unaware of the mentality. Sorry if my initial posts were unclear because of my biases toward team diving.

You sure have some strong opinions about diving jersey shipwrecks, especially for someone whose profile indicates that they have completed a few dozen dives.

You opinion that a 30 cu-ft pony back mounted is of no use and a slung 80 tank on a recerational depth dive on a jersey shipwreck is needed for redundancy makes me laugh. You seem to beleive that a back mounted tank is inaccesible and is therefore unrelaible and unworthy, yet you seem to think that a back mounted single tank that is just as accesible is sufficient.

 

[Rescue Diver68]

Really?

He will learn this during his next 50 dives perhaps.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

et you seem to think that a back mounted single tank that is just as accesible is sufficient.

I can reach my valves (single tank or doubles) at all times. I have yet to see someone be able to reach their pony valve. What I think is funny is how ardently people defend "ponies" as I have defined them over the redundant air source I prefer (stage bottle, slung). Why dont you explain that and convince me otherwise.

We keep revisiting how few dives I have. Perhaps I just have learned from the experience of far more capable and experienced divers than are present in this chat thread--maybe their logic in explanations is greater than the logic of the redundant air pony bottle. I mean, isn't that what we like to call education? Why should i learn solely from making mistakes?

 

[formula1mb@aol.com]

I can easily reach the valve on my backmounted pony. As long as I mount it upside down, the valve is actually very easy to reach. Lot easier than my main tank.