Pony Bottle, worth it?

[Hatul]

Based on some of the reasoning presenting above, it may sound like we should stop carrying any safety devices that we didn't need for our last hundred dives.

If, if, if - if s/he always travels with you, makes every dive you do, sticks with you like a remora, and nothing goes wrong. How many times have you used a spare tire, and would you drive 100 miles thru Arizona backroads without one? You can also discuss risk management and how to deal with caca when it hits the fan, but I won't dive without one unless I have to - like when I arrived at the resort too late the first night to have it filled for the first trip the next day. Sure enough, that was when I screwed up and had to do a 50 ft Cesa - which I aced, but I really missed my pony.

It's a hassle: annual reg and tank servicing, an extra 15# in my luggage for every trip, getting it filled on arrival, boarding with it, mounting up with it, dragging it thru the water, climbing it up the ladder, rinsing it between dives, etc. Still - nope, won't do without it if I can avoid it. Hell it should be a requirement before buying a camera as bad as many of us are about following our view finders.

Get the 19 cf - only 2# heavier than the 13 cf but 50% more air when a surprise comes up, as it's hard to say how much is enough in an emergency given the unplanned nature of those. The 6 cf is in the same joke area as a spare air.

What book? Can we bury it? You want your safety devices attached to your body.

Since you're the guy who announces all the diving deaths I'll believe you.

Adam

 

[jimthediver]

When would have been a good time for them to separate?



I would consider that highly unlikely.

If he was lacking the knowledge or skill to monitor his gas, stay in touch with his buddy or do a CESA I don't think he would have had the wherewithal to use a bail out bottle.

Well this may or may not be true. If the kid had a pony, and knew how to use it might have been just the one more chance he needed to save himself. If herbdb wants to strap a pony on his sons to make them safer more power to him. Just make sure they know its for emergency only and it should never be gas they intend to use on a dive.

Personally I would not go inside a deep wreck or even around outside a very deep one in the Great Lakes without my 40 cu ft pony. I have only used a pony in the ocean once when my wife and I went on a trip to Truk for the expressed purpose of diving deep wrecks. In 40 years of diving I have used my pony exactly one time in an emergency when a very experienced buddy and I did something incredibly stupid on a fairly deep wreck. Our ponies saved our butts, we probably would have been severely bent without them. You should never need it for recreational diving, with the possible exception of solo diving. However, if you do need it, it sure is nice having it there!

 

[herbdb]

When would have been a good time for them to separate?


I would consider that highly unlikely.

If he was lacking the knowledge or skill to monitor his gas, stay in touch with his buddy or do a CESA I don't think he would have had the wherewithal to use a bail out bottle.

What a stupid comment. I sincerely hope the divers friends and relatives don't see it. Guess a real pro like you has never lost track of a buddy or had one get out of arms reach. It does happen to us mere mortals. Grabbing a second stage and sticking it in your mouth is pretty simple.

 

[bj139]

I bought a 19cuft pony when my first dive after my certification I watched the entire group swim off in the distance at 60ft. 60 ft is deep to a newbie who has only been to 40 ft. They waited and I swam like hell to catch them. Yesterday I dove at the site where the 15 year old drowned but was with a buddy I knew would not swim off. We were at 80ft and I knew where my RAS was every 30 seconds. I did not take the pony bottle. I consider the pony bottle to be a cheap form of life insurance; only I get to collect on the policy if I need it. If I dive with people I don't know or I dive deep, I take the pony. I guess 80ft is getting deep. Looking up, a CESA from 80ft seems an awful long way up.

 

[Dack]

I think Pony bottles are a crutch, e.g. if you know they're there then you start relying on them and push the limits further.

My solution: dive with HP100 tanks while my buddy dives LP80's. It's a switch to DIN but you've got an extra 20 c.f. and no extra equipment to carry. Not every dive shop carries them so of course it's not always possible.

However I see this as a temporary measure until I become more skilled at managing air and practicing those emergency skills. Having the extra 20 c.f. is exactly the same, whether it's in a pony bottle or a larger capacity tank. If your mind knows its there and you're in that situation of "just 2 more minutes..." you will use it either way. If you don't have good air management skills, both will run out at exactly the same time.

In other words: At some point my buddy will get HP100's too - then do we both have an extra 20 c.f.? No...

- Dack

 

[jimthediver]

I think Pony bottles are a crutch, e.g. if you know they're there then you start relying on them and push the limits further.

My solution: dive with HP100 tanks while my buddy dives LP80's. It's a switch to DIN but you've got an extra 20 c.f. and no extra equipment to carry. Not every dive shop carries them so of course it's not always possible.

However I see this as a temporary measure until I become more skilled at managing air and practicing those emergency skills. Having the extra 20 c.f. is exactly the same, whether it's in a pony bottle or a larger capacity tank. If your mind knows its there and you're in that situation of "just 2 more minutes..." you will use it either way. If you don't have good air management skills, both will run out at exactly the same time.

In other words: At some point my buddy will get HP100's too - then do we both have an extra 20 c.f.? No...

- Dack

If you really think having a bigger tank provides you the same level of safety as a fully redundant air supply you have a lot to learn. I suggest you do a lot more reading and listening before making such comments.

Jimthediver

Live to dive, dive to live!

 

[herbdb]

I too dive large bottles when I can, but this is not the same as having a totally redundant system. I don't consider the gas in a pony bottle in dive planning. If no one ever uses them outside of practice, I will be very happy.

We have practiced switching to the pony and doing normal ascents with safety stops.

I think they are worth the trouble. For those who disagree, the odds are with you. Too each his own assessment of risk.

 

[DandyDon]

Does anyone here carry a spare tire on trips? You get better gas mileage without them.

Since you're the guy who announces all the diving deaths I'll believe you.

Adam

Well, I read the news and share it some but that has little to do with it. I think most of those would have survived it they'd follow the OW training but mistakes and panic happen. My feelings are based more on my own mistakes and those of my buddies'. The last time I used mine was when my home bud whom I would otherwise trust with almost any issue other than dive safety ignored me 3 times and started into another deep swim thru. It became the difference between a fast LOW ascent and a leisurely one with SS and after a 130 ft dive I like the latter.

I bought a 19cuft pony when my first dive after my certification I watched the entire group swim off in the distance at 60ft. 60 ft is deep to a newbie who has only been to 40 ft. They waited and I swam like hell to catch them. Yesterday I dove at the site where the 15 year old drowned but was with a buddy I knew would not swim off. We were at 80ft and I knew where my RAS was every 30 seconds. I did not take the pony bottle. I consider the pony bottle to be a cheap form of life insurance; only I get to collect on the policy if I need it. If I dive with people I don't know or I dive deep, I take the pony. I guess 80ft is getting deep. Looking up, a CESA from 80ft seems an awful long way up.

Why didn't you take the pony? Wow.

I think Pony bottles are a crutch, e.g. if you know they're there then you start relying on them and push the limits further.

My solution: dive with HP100 tanks while my buddy dives LP80's. It's a switch to DIN but you've got an extra 20 c.f. and no extra equipment to carry. Not every dive shop carries them so of course it's not always possible.

However I see this as a temporary measure until I become more skilled at managing air and practicing those emergency skills. Having the extra 20 c.f. is exactly the same, whether it's in a pony bottle or a larger capacity tank. If your mind knows its there and you're in that situation of "just 2 more minutes..." you will use it either way. If you don't have good air management skills, both will run out at exactly the same time.

In other words: At some point my buddy will get HP100's too - then do we both have an extra 20 c.f.? No...

- Dack

Yeah the crutch thing. Hell, your buddy is a crutch. If you service your gear, nothing goes wrong, and you don't screw up, why do you need a crutch. You don't carry any signaling devices either do you? Blah! Don't buy a camera, ok?

 

[Dr Wu]

What a stupid comment. I sincerely hope the divers friends and relatives don't see it. Guess a real pro like you has never lost track of a buddy or had one get out of arms reach. It does happen to us mere mortals. Grabbing a second stage and sticking it in your mouth is pretty simple.

Re-read the details of the incident and tell me how more heavy gear would have helped the diver.

It certainly would have helped him sink faster.

 

[TMHeimer]

Everyone is different. My pony usage:
I use it when:
--Solo diving below 30' (did this only once).
--A dive approx. 80' or deeper
--even shallower dives when with a questionable buddy
--when having one doesn't involve plane travel (could always rent one)

Don't use it when:
--solo siving 30' or shallower
--shallower than 80, with an apparent good buddy
--if travelling by plane (rent?)