oldschoolto
Contributor
This is the way us old northeast wreck divers did it...
The doubles stand up on their own....:cool2:
Jim...
The doubles stand up on their own....:cool2:Jim...
Pony Bottle Regulator Setup
- Thread starter Dave.E
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
For me, the pony is there, but not a component of my gas plan. By doing that, my gas on my back is serving my primary, and a octo, with air for me and my buddy. The pony is there as "belts along with suspenders" in a slung configuration, either for me or for my buddy if something really goes wonky. I am glad to say, it hasn't come to need or use (other than drills), and i am thankful for that.
Hatul
Contributor
Scubadude_LA
Contributor
- Messages
- 344
- Reaction score
- 69
- # of dives
- I just don't log dives
Oldschoolto,,, Cool setup !!
Back to the subject:
I see how the "Standard Config" can make sense for some. The SDI Solo manual also goes on to relate how having an "alternate second stage" on back gas basically only adds more uneeded failure points when you have a completely redundant gas source slung (or doubled or the like). You don't always have to dive with a pony tank as Hatul stated (he had a good point though depending on the individual, to be discussed). Dropping the redundant gas source for a true buddy dive (I don't ever consider any dives as those) simply means pulling a low pressure plug and screwing in an "alternate second stage". IMO, if you can't handle that you probably don't need to be dealing with the task loading of a redundant air source in the first place. I made my last post on that premise. I pony up mostly when single tank offshore spearfishing when no one else is "in the same ocean" so fairly small chance that any failure would leave me with a breathable back gas tank with or without an "alternate second stage" unless I used individual shutoff valves on lp hoses, I just don't like those shutoffs. Best case it would be a feathering the valve situation.
But, and there is always a "But", The OPs profile isn't giving much insite on gained experience (if the profile is up to date). So maybe the best route is the "Standard Configuration with Extra Failure Points".
To the OP, I saw you posted about Nomads, this sort of points to you knowing how to deal with independent gas sources (plus you didn't mention AIR2, which in certain types of diving is no big deal to me even though it gets bashed to hell, but I'm no expert for sure). If not and you are just doing single tank dives and want some added safety by using a pony get a little mentorship, or heck how bout SDI SOLO course (It's not just for solo divers, also for those who want to add some independence with insta buddies, regular buddies, and just plain safer diving, etc). You need to know the proper way to handle the extra gas source, otherwise in a pinch it is probably only a liability. It isn't rocket science but realistic practice is bliss... Don your gear, jump in a pool at night with no mask and simulate a backgas failure with empty lungs and practice deploying that pony to get a feel for it. Practice fumbling around with it when gearing up and switching tanks too.
Back to the subject:
I see how the "Standard Config" can make sense for some. The SDI Solo manual also goes on to relate how having an "alternate second stage" on back gas basically only adds more uneeded failure points when you have a completely redundant gas source slung (or doubled or the like). You don't always have to dive with a pony tank as Hatul stated (he had a good point though depending on the individual, to be discussed). Dropping the redundant gas source for a true buddy dive (I don't ever consider any dives as those) simply means pulling a low pressure plug and screwing in an "alternate second stage". IMO, if you can't handle that you probably don't need to be dealing with the task loading of a redundant air source in the first place. I made my last post on that premise. I pony up mostly when single tank offshore spearfishing when no one else is "in the same ocean" so fairly small chance that any failure would leave me with a breathable back gas tank with or without an "alternate second stage" unless I used individual shutoff valves on lp hoses, I just don't like those shutoffs. Best case it would be a feathering the valve situation.
But, and there is always a "But", The OPs profile isn't giving much insite on gained experience (if the profile is up to date). So maybe the best route is the "Standard Configuration with Extra Failure Points".
To the OP, I saw you posted about Nomads, this sort of points to you knowing how to deal with independent gas sources (plus you didn't mention AIR2, which in certain types of diving is no big deal to me even though it gets bashed to hell, but I'm no expert for sure). If not and you are just doing single tank dives and want some added safety by using a pony get a little mentorship, or heck how bout SDI SOLO course (It's not just for solo divers, also for those who want to add some independence with insta buddies, regular buddies, and just plain safer diving, etc). You need to know the proper way to handle the extra gas source, otherwise in a pinch it is probably only a liability. It isn't rocket science but realistic practice is bliss... Don your gear, jump in a pool at night with no mask and simulate a backgas failure with empty lungs and practice deploying that pony to get a feel for it. Practice fumbling around with it when gearing up and switching tanks too.
Devil's advocate!
Slinging isn't always the best. Many divers who take solo/self-reliant/lonely diver courses do so because they are busy doing stuff under water. Taking pictures is an example that's often given but there are others.
In such a situation, the best is IMO to either use sidemount or to have your pony mounted on your backgas tank. I invert the pony for easy access to the valve and tuck a regular hose for the second stage under bungees. I keep the tank pressurized but closed. Hands and front areas remain uncluttered. No need for an spg since catastrophic gas failure from the pony is very unlikely (bad O-ring on tank valve only) and gas requirements have been calculated beforehand.
If doing true solo dive, then alternate is merely a failure point (and the pony becomes the backup of the backup in many cases).
If diving with others, it becomes necessary (or do you calculate buddy's gas requirements on shallow no deco dives to make sure that can safely ascend on your limited amount of gas from any point of the dive?).
In both cases, sidemount is more fun and makes more sense!
---------- Post added March 15th, 2013 at 09:46 PM ----------
Devil's advocate!
Slinging isn't always the best. Many divers who take solo/self-reliant/lonely diver courses do so because they are busy doing stuff under water. Taking pictures is an example that's often given but there are others.
In such a situation, the best is IMO to either use sidemount or to have your pony mounted on your backgas tank. I invert the pony for easy access to the valve and tuck a regular hose for the second stage under bungees. I keep the tank pressurized but closed. Hands and front areas remain uncluttered. No need for an spg since catastrophic gas failure from the pony is very unlikely (bad O-ring on tank valve only) and gas requirements have been calculated beforehand.
If doing true solo dive, then alternate is merely a failure point (and the pony becomes the backup of the backup in many cases).
If diving with others, it becomes necessary (or do you calculate buddy's gas requirements on shallow no deco dives to make sure that can safely ascend on your limited amount of gas from any point of the dive?).
In both cases, sidemount is more fun and makes more sense!
Slinging isn't always the best. Many divers who take solo/self-reliant/lonely diver courses do so because they are busy doing stuff under water. Taking pictures is an example that's often given but there are others.
In such a situation, the best is IMO to either use sidemount or to have your pony mounted on your backgas tank. I invert the pony for easy access to the valve and tuck a regular hose for the second stage under bungees. I keep the tank pressurized but closed. Hands and front areas remain uncluttered. No need for an spg since catastrophic gas failure from the pony is very unlikely (bad O-ring on tank valve only) and gas requirements have been calculated beforehand.
If doing true solo dive, then alternate is merely a failure point (and the pony becomes the backup of the backup in many cases).
If diving with others, it becomes necessary (or do you calculate buddy's gas requirements on shallow no deco dives to make sure that can safely ascend on your limited amount of gas from any point of the dive?).
In both cases, sidemount is more fun and makes more sense!
---------- Post added March 15th, 2013 at 09:46 PM ----------
Devil's advocate!
Slinging isn't always the best. Many divers who take solo/self-reliant/lonely diver courses do so because they are busy doing stuff under water. Taking pictures is an example that's often given but there are others.
In such a situation, the best is IMO to either use sidemount or to have your pony mounted on your backgas tank. I invert the pony for easy access to the valve and tuck a regular hose for the second stage under bungees. I keep the tank pressurized but closed. Hands and front areas remain uncluttered. No need for an spg since catastrophic gas failure from the pony is very unlikely (bad O-ring on tank valve only) and gas requirements have been calculated beforehand.
If doing true solo dive, then alternate is merely a failure point (and the pony becomes the backup of the backup in many cases).
If diving with others, it becomes necessary (or do you calculate buddy's gas requirements on shallow no deco dives to make sure that can safely ascend on your limited amount of gas from any point of the dive?).
In both cases, sidemount is more fun and makes more sense!
GrumpyOldGuy
Contributor
I back mount my smaller pony's and sling my big boy (30).
Back mount does mean less clutter up front, the draw back is out of sight sometimes equals out of mind which might present some sense of false security. So if you are going down that rout you need to check the button SPG on the tank BEFORE you gear up every dive. You also should have the 2nd adjusted to have a higher than normal cracking pressure so it is less likely to free flow when you jump in. Lastly, you need to be keenly aware that with a yoke valve, if you dive with it off and some how you do loose pressure in the 2nd hose, that the yoke screw may be mistaken for the valve with a gloved hand and you may unscrew the reg rather than opening the valve.
These issues can all be addressed with some discipline. Just don't get sloppy and think that merely having a pony strapped on to your back will fix things for you. There are active steps you need to take on every dive to make sure it will function and this are more critical with a back mount than a slung bottle which is always in view.
Back mount does mean less clutter up front, the draw back is out of sight sometimes equals out of mind which might present some sense of false security. So if you are going down that rout you need to check the button SPG on the tank BEFORE you gear up every dive. You also should have the 2nd adjusted to have a higher than normal cracking pressure so it is less likely to free flow when you jump in. Lastly, you need to be keenly aware that with a yoke valve, if you dive with it off and some how you do loose pressure in the 2nd hose, that the yoke screw may be mistaken for the valve with a gloved hand and you may unscrew the reg rather than opening the valve.
These issues can all be addressed with some discipline. Just don't get sloppy and think that merely having a pony strapped on to your back will fix things for you. There are active steps you need to take on every dive to make sure it will function and this are more critical with a back mount than a slung bottle which is always in view.
oldschoolto
Contributor
I was diving that doubles (ones just like them) setup back in the 70's early 80's.... The pony was turned on before the dive and you had a SPG run under the left arm and the conshelf run over the right shoulder and clipped to the harness... Of course I had J-valves on the 72's to managed my air...
... I had made a spring on the J-rod and groove for it to sit in... You reached back and pushed up and moved the rod to the front and pulled down... It worked really well.... You need good equipment when you were a 14 year old solo northeast wreck diver....
This is me at 13
And yes, I drove my mother CRAZY :scared::nailbiter::signofcross:.... But I guess that's why I don't have a bucket list....
Jim.....
... I had made a spring on the J-rod and groove for it to sit in... You reached back and pushed up and moved the rod to the front and pulled down... It worked really well.... You need good equipment when you were a 14 year old solo northeast wreck diver.... This is me at 13 And yes, I drove my mother CRAZY :scared::nailbiter::signofcross:.... But I guess that's why I don't have a bucket list....
Jim.....
Scubadude_LA
Contributor
- Messages
- 344
- Reaction score
- 69
- # of dives
- I just don't log dives
ROLF!! 14 year old, smoking J-Valves on Northeast Wreck Solo and you you call your mother crazy. She is a Saint my friend.... :cheerleader:
And for the record, I mean that in a fun, light hearted way
And for the record, I mean that in a fun, light hearted way
samer0214
Registered
Following this thread, got me thinking about my current pony setup. I am a recreational diver and my pony bottle is a 6 cu.ft. (with a 22" hose and primary 2nd stage) in a soft bag, which I usually sling in the front at waste level. My BCD is the Seaquest Black Diamond (back inflate), with a Seaquest Airsource, and a Suunto Cobra computer.
Although the BCD is a vest type, and fairly uncluttered in the front, this thread got me thinking that I would like the pony mounted differently and out of the way. I don't like the idea of mounting it to my main tank, so perhaps a variation on the "side mount" option is the way to go.
Ideas and suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Although the BCD is a vest type, and fairly uncluttered in the front, this thread got me thinking that I would like the pony mounted differently and out of the way. I don't like the idea of mounting it to my main tank, so perhaps a variation on the "side mount" option is the way to go.
Ideas and suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you!
lloyd_borrett
Contributor
G'day,
I use the same first stage, primary second stage and alternate second stage regs on ALL of my recreational, technical and stage/pony/deco setups - Apeks XTX-200.
I want to be using the best first and second stage reg regardless of what cylinder I'm breathing from.
When technical diving I can spend more time on my stage/deco regs than on my back gas regs, so I want both the primary and second stage regs to be as good as they can be and very familiar.
On my main recreational and technical reg setups both the primary second stage and alternate second stage are the same - Apeks XTX-200. In an emergency my buddy will take the primary second stage reg in my mouth which is thus on a longer hose (but not a 'long hose'). I want the alternative second stage I switch to to be just as good, and something I'm very familiar with, so as not to increase the task loading. So its the same.
I have a small brass SPG on each of my stage/deco/pony cylinder reg setups, plus on my rec and tech reg setups. I also have transmitters on my tech and rec first stage regs. Thus I have SPG redundancy on both those setups.
I use either my 12 or 15 litre steel cylinders for back gas when recreational diving. Manifolded twin 12 litre steel cylinders for tech diving back gas.
All of my stage/deco/pony cylinders are 11 litre aluminium 80s with sling stage kits. As long as you have the right cylinders with the right buoyancy characteristics the size doesn't make a huge difference in the water. So using 11 litre ones instead of smaller ones just gives me more reserve in most situations.
If going deep or solo on my recreational setup I sling a pony for redundancy.
Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.
I use the same first stage, primary second stage and alternate second stage regs on ALL of my recreational, technical and stage/pony/deco setups - Apeks XTX-200.
I want to be using the best first and second stage reg regardless of what cylinder I'm breathing from.
When technical diving I can spend more time on my stage/deco regs than on my back gas regs, so I want both the primary and second stage regs to be as good as they can be and very familiar.
On my main recreational and technical reg setups both the primary second stage and alternate second stage are the same - Apeks XTX-200. In an emergency my buddy will take the primary second stage reg in my mouth which is thus on a longer hose (but not a 'long hose'). I want the alternative second stage I switch to to be just as good, and something I'm very familiar with, so as not to increase the task loading. So its the same.
I have a small brass SPG on each of my stage/deco/pony cylinder reg setups, plus on my rec and tech reg setups. I also have transmitters on my tech and rec first stage regs. Thus I have SPG redundancy on both those setups.
I use either my 12 or 15 litre steel cylinders for back gas when recreational diving. Manifolded twin 12 litre steel cylinders for tech diving back gas.
All of my stage/deco/pony cylinders are 11 litre aluminium 80s with sling stage kits. As long as you have the right cylinders with the right buoyancy characteristics the size doesn't make a huge difference in the water. So using 11 litre ones instead of smaller ones just gives me more reserve in most situations.
If going deep or solo on my recreational setup I sling a pony for redundancy.
Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.
Similar threads
