Pony Bottle for NJ Boat Diving??

[greg1]

Why?? All it had to do is be reliable deliver air to get you to the surface safely.



not necessarily every year. But it's very important to rinse all regs well after each day's use. A well maintained bailout reg can easily go two years between servicing. On the other hand if you don't take care of it, it will probably need service in much less than one year.

The reason you want a quality system is when a diver is in a stressful situation, such as running out of air on a primary, (or for what ever reason, he has to switch to a pony) you want your gas to be delivered as fast as you can demand it. If you have a regulator that breaths OK, you will notice the difference as soon as you take that first breath. Since you have already experienced a problem, your mind will almost trick you into there is a problem with your pony, due to the difference in gas delivery rate. A diver starts breathing harder and harder, faster and faster, just to get air from an OK regulator. It's a domino effect, a bad situation made worse. I have seen it happen.

I agree you could get two years in between servicing, but I like to play it on the safe side and make it a habit of getting them serviced every year.

The other reason I would buy a quality reg is for future growth. I out-grew my pony setup for manifolded twin 120's, now I had a reg set op to go right on that equaled my primary. I use the same rational for Stage bottles. I prefer Scuba Pro S600 for primary’s and R380 for Stages.
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[diverbrian]

I might be an exception, but I tend to use my pony bottle for two reasons. The first is that it contains a mix of a higher PO2 than my backgas. The second is that it allows me better flexibility in using one set of doubles for two deep dives in the same day. If I do my ascent on the stage bottle, I have more gas left for the second dive.

At one time I used a lower quality reg (I had it O2 cleaned) on my stage. I never did have a problem with it. My theory was that due to the high O2 content, I wasn't going to be using the mix below 70 ft. in any case. This reduced the chance of a freeflow to allow me to use a "lesser" reg on my stage. For reasons unrelated to this thread, I now have regs of equal or better quality on my stage bottles. Now, I use AL Legend LX (x2) for my backgas and the DiveRite regs for my stages. My old Calypso reg is now my Argon bottle reg. so it is not wasted either.

Bottom line: I dive in conditions that are cold water (albeit fresh water) with bad seas and many of the accompanying issues that you run into on the East Coast. One day, I would like to take the time to get out to some of the deeper wrecks out there (as a matter of fact).

I recommend a stage (excuse me: pony) bottle of no less than 19 cu. ft. capacity and SLUNG so that you can see it. Also, the valve is easy to reach so that you can check the pressure on the boat, turn it off, and not open the valve until/unless you need that gas source. Personally, I recommend a 40 cu. ft. bottle so that you can use it for tech diving if that is what you decide to do a later date. But, the divers on this thread are the experts for your situation.

 

[DEEPLOU]

The reason you want a quality system is when a diver is in a stressful situation, such as running out of air on a primary, (or for what ever reason, he has to switch to a pony) you want your gas to be delivered as fast as you can demand it. If you have a regulator that breaths OK, you will notice the difference as soon as you take that first breath. Since you have already experienced a problem, your mind will almost trick you into there is a problem with your pony, due to the difference in gas delivery rate. A diver starts breathing harder and harder, faster and faster, just to get air from an OK regulator. It's a domino effect, a bad situation made worse. I have seen it happen. .

What you saw was a panic-ed diver. I doubt the regulator on the pony had anything to do with it.
On a full pony bottle, the gas delivery rate will not be significantly different than the primary was, (low end piston regs degrade in performance when the tank pressure gets low), except possably if the primary was a Poseiden Jetstream or Exteme.

The other reason I would buy a quality reg is for future growth. I out-grew my pony setup for manifolded twin 120's, now I had a reg set op to go right on that equaled my primary. I use the same rational for Stage bottles. I prefer Scuba Pro S600 for primary’s and R380 for Stages.
.

Just to play devil's advocate, (as I use Poseidens on both posts), the secondary reg is just like the pony reg, its there for backup, unless you are diving independent doubles. As for stage bottles, that lower end pony reg is fine for the stage bottle. Its not being used at depth (generally). The simpiler it is, the less likely it will fail.

 

[greg1]

What you saw was a panic-ed diver. I doubt the regulator on the pony had anything to do with it.
On a full pony bottle, the gas delivery rate will not be significantly different than the primary was, (low end piston regs degrade in performance when the tank pressure gets low), except possably if the primary was a Poseiden Jetstream or Exteme.


Just to play devil's advocate, (as I use Poseidens on both posts), the secondary reg is just like the pony reg, its there for backup, unless you are diving independent doubles. As for stage bottles, that lower end pony reg is fine for the stage bottle. Its not being used at depth (generally). The simpiler it is, the less likely it will fail.

I understand your point, it's not like the difference is night and day, but is could be noticeable for a panic-ed diver to continue to snowball. The way I look at it is if it is deleivering air, it works!! It's just my personal preference


I still like a hi performance regs for my stages too. I have been doing deeper deco stops. I was in Truk 2 years ago and our first stop was at 90ft for 1 minute and we progressed slowly in 1 minute intervals up to our first real stop at 40ft.

I think the main thing here is to be familiar enough with your equipment that if you should ever need it you know what to expect. When I train up at Dutch Springs, I make it a habit to practice emergency skills.

 

[Web Monkey]

Does a "Spare Air" fit the bill for this or is a "real" pony bottle reqired?

Not if you want to live.

Your mileage may vary, but a 3 Cu Ft spare air will hold you just long enough to wonder exactly what you were thinking when you bought it.

Depending on your SAC rate, a 19 Cu Ft tank should get you a 30 Ft/Min ascent from 60 feet, including a 3 minute safety stop at 15'

A 30 Cu Ft tank should do the same from around 130 feet, including a deep stop for two minutes.

Your mileage may vary, so before you buy one, you should borrow/rent a tank of the size you're thinking of, and try an actual ascent using it. You want to have plenty of gas left when you're done, since your SAC rate will tend to increase during an actual failure.

Terry

 

[fraff2]

It really isn't enough air to bail you out of anything safely. I highly doubt that it will be acceptable. You can get a decent bottle used for stupid cheap. I ended up paying less than 250 bucks for a used bottle with new valve and brand new first and second stages. Then I slung it myself instead of buying a 20 dollar sling.

Where would I look for a used setup cheap... Looking to buy pony bottles for my son and I. Also looking at getting a (main) tank. We have purchase everything else (computers, wetsuits, masks, fins, bcd, etc.).... Thanks

 

[Web Monkey]

Where would I look for a used setup cheap... Looking to buy pony bottles for my son and I. Also looking at getting a (main) tank. We have purchase everything else (computers, wetsuits, masks, fins, bcd, etc.).... Thanks

Sounds like the woman standing in line ahead of me at the service counter in a shop in Florida.

The tech just finished a long explanation about how the reg was all corroded from being stored without being rinsed, and how it would need to be rebuilt.

She said "It's only for my husband, can't you just fix it a little?"

Although you certainly don't have to buy new, "cheap" probably isn't a word I'd want to use when looking for something my life may depend on.

You might want to check with other divers in your area who may have upgraded, and see if they have any older equipment they would consider selling to you.

Terry

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

Sounds like the woman standing in line ahead of me at the service counter in a shop in Florida.

The tech just finished a long explanation about how the reg was all corroded from being stored without being rinsed, and how it would need to be rebuilt.

She said "It's only for my husband, can't you just fix it a little?"

Although you certainly don't have to buy new, "cheap" probably isn't a word I'd want to use when looking for something my life may depend on.

You might want to check with other divers in your area who may have upgraded, and see if they have any older equipment they would consider selling to you.

Terry

I think he said a "used setup cheap," not a "used cheap setup."

Price does not always reflect quality.

 

[Jonny_Rocket]

Fraff, check out www.northeastscubasupply.com. They usually have used stage bottles. As far as the stage reg, try Ebay... I picked up a brand new Mares Axis Pro for like 130 bucks.

If you're looking for 80s, let me know, I should be coming across some soon... just waiting to hear back from the seller.

 

[jamiep3]

19 cu/ft back mounted Pony, use the same reg as my primary (conshelf XIV). Back mounted because I also do some Public Safety Diving, where I don't want anything below me while I'm crawling along the bottom. I keep my reg bungied to my pony tank, so that I won't get it confused with Primary. Also have a regular SPG for my pony which is secured in a way that it does not dangle.

Your mileage may vary, as they say.