Pony Bottle for NJ Boat Diving??

[Dive Junky]

I dont know of any NJ or NY boat that would count a spare air as a redundant gas source...

about the smallest you will get away with is a 13cf (shalllow stuff).. I would recommend at the absolute minimum a 19cf with a 30cf highly recommended for the deeper stuff..

Rember in most cases a free ascent is not an option.. Our boats are anchored into a site (frequently CHAINED) into a site.. the boat can not easily move to get a diver and we usually have currents, SO you have to be able to get back to the ascent/descent point (anchor line) and use that to get back to the boat.. Thats why you need an alternate source f reasonable volume, swimming to the surface in a free ascent means a you will floating on the surface untill all other divers are on board b) get a mate in the water to free a boat, and C) you will be buying beer for everyone on board

Yeah, I know what you mean. My fourth dive off of Jersey I couldn't find the down line and had to make a free ascent. Made a safe ascent, did my three minute stop in my dry suit and thought I was all that, until I popped my head up and the boat was a good 150 yards away.

The response from the boat was a really loud SWIM!!!! After that swim I never dove again without a lift bag and Jersey real. Of course after another 60 dives off our coast I haven't needed it.

As far as pony bottles go, most of my dives off the coast have been with a 19cf pony. None of those dives were over 100 ft. Now that I do some of the wrecks over 100 ft. I have switched to a 30cf bottle.

 

[c-dog]

Welcome to the scubaboard andyman2234

The previous replies contain some good advice. I first started divng in NJ with a pony system. Here are a couple of points that would be obvious to an experienced diver, but if your like me, you might over look them when you first start out. Keep in mind I'm no expert.

Capacity, it is definately preferrable to get back to the boat via the anchor line. I dove with a 13 ft^3 pony for years without really using it. When I finally practiced with it I discovered that it didn't give me enough gas. Unfortunately I didn't have a pressure guage on the tank so I drained it. Which brings me to my next point.

Pressure Guage - I like being able to monitor the pony tank pressure throughout the dive with a pressure guage. You can tell if it is leaking, or if you have time to fart around on the bottom looking for the anchor line. Some people don't like the extra hose. I tried one of those little guages that screw right into the first stage but I couldn't see it underwater. The guage also lets you know if you are breathing off of the wrong reg.

Mark the Pony 2nd Stage - I'm ashamed to admit that I have drained a pony bottle by breathing off of the pony reg when I thought I using the primary gas supply. My guess would be that I am not the only person in history to ever do this. Use a different color 2nd stage, spiral wrap on the hose or whatever you need to do to keep the regs and the guages from getting mixed up.

And lastly you definatley what to pratice with whatever system you end up with.

Have fun

 

[skyking]

Yeah - everything C-Dog said.

There's a temptation to go cheap on the reg with the pony system, but frankly I want my bailout system to be at least as good if not better than the one that just failed - after all it probably failed for a reason. That means a ballanced environmentally-sealed first stage, and a good quality second stage, preferably with a heat exchanger.

I've made it a habit to carry the pony any time the bottom is more than 25 ft, even in a quarry. Lots of folks laugh, but hey - it keeps me in practice, and I remind them of the five things that do nobody any good:

Altitude above, Runway behind, Fuel on the ground, Air on the surface, and the whizzer you walked past.

Tom

 

[-hh]

I dont know of any NJ or NY boat that would count a spare air as a redundant gas source...

If you read the fine print, you'll find some NJ diveboats (at least) that allow a Spare Air as the redundant air supply, although the common euphansim is: " pony bottle or alternate air source"

....this doesn't mean that the Spare Air is the best product to buy.

about the smallest you will get away with is a 13cf (shalllow stuff).. I would recommend at the absolute minimum a 19cf with a 30cf highly recommended for the deeper stuff..

Agreed. There can also be other requirements too, which need to be cross-checked versus each different local diveboat you venture on: IIRC, many require some sort of reel or upline to be carried too. Here's one such example of a policy page.

And for Drew, a good NJ information resouce is scubanj.org:

http://www.scubanj.org/Links.html



-hh

 

[DEEPLOU]

skyking
There's a temptation to go cheap on the reg with the pony system, but frankly I want my bailout system to be at least as good if not better than the one that just failed - after all it probably failed for a reason. That means a ballanced environmentally-sealed first stage, and a good quality second stage, preferably with a heat exchanger.

Unless you are planning on using that regulator later for doubles, why waste the money.
I do agree howevr, don't go cheap. That to me means buying a cheap off brand reg. A low end main brand regulator will do fine for a pony system.
You don't need high performance for a bail out. What you need is reliability.

PS: never had to use mine when set up as bailout diving singles, but it gets a workout now that it has been promoted to sling bottle for deco.

 

[skyking]

Unless you are planning on using that regulator later for doubles, why waste the money.

Actually it's going to get used next on a doubles set, then moved to a stage bottle when I can afford dedicated regulators for the doubles - baby steps...

 

[greg1]

Everyone is pretty on target. I would also recommend at least a 19 cft and NOT going cheep on your pony reg, remember if god forbid you ever have to use it, you want something that will breath as good or better than your primary. Also, even though you may not use it often, get in the habit of servicing it regularly too.

 

[DEEPLOU]

you want something that will breath as good or better than your primary.

Why?? All it had to do is be reliable deliver air to get you to the surface safely.

even though you may not use it often, get in the habit of servicing it regularly too.

not necessarily every year. But it's very important to rinse all regs well after each day's use. A well maintained bailout reg can easily go two years between servicing. On the other hand if you don't take care of it, it will probably need service in much less than one year.

 

[MB104]

I am a new diver with only about 10 dives. I was in my LDS yesterday and was told that I am required to have at least a pony bottle setup to get only any dive boat in NJ. Is this true?

Like I mentioned I am new to this posting so please don't rip me a new one.

Drew

Welcome to Scubaboard. Having read most of the posts to your question, I will give you my 2 cents. I have done about 100 NJ ocean dives, which pales in comparison to many of the divers on the boats I use. My very first NJ ocean wreck dive was with an aluminum 80 with no reduntant air supply. I was new and stupid. I listened to my instructor, who was with me, who I feel gave me poor advice in more than just this area . Although I was allowed to dive, I was told by the boat captain, that under no circumstances, would I be allowed to return without a pony bottle no smaller than a 19 cf. Spare air was not an option. With depths of 80-130 feet, Spare air would not suffice. Now I won't even dive in a quarry without my pony bottle. I dive as I train, and train as I dive, so I have the pony bottle with me on all dives deeper than an inlet.

I have been on several NJ dive boats, and have seen many divers without proper gear. One incident comes to mind, where a new diver was allowed onto a 70' wreck with an aluminum 80 and no pony. She was not in my group, but was on the same boat. During my safety stop, I saw her shooting from depth coming up the line as fast as she could swim. I stopped her and checked her guages. She had 500 psi in her tank...more than enough for her to conduct a 3-minute stop at 15 feet. Nothing I could do could convince her to stay, and she went to the surface. I have not seen her on any dive since. A pony bottle would have prevented her panic, and most likely, she would be happily diving today.

All boat operators I know require a redundant air supply, either a pony or doubles. Its not just good policy for the boats, but good policy for you.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

I carry a pony bottle on all of my dives. Its banded to my LP104 and is exactly the same size.

I've never been a big fan of a single tank with pony, especially one that is attached to the backgas. Here is why.

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=74063&page=1&pp=10&highlight=unsafe

I have a fairly strong opinion that your redundancy should come in the form of the rest of your team and that a pony is not necessary. However, since the boats require it, I'd recommend an AL40 slung as a stage bottle. With proper gas management, you'll have enough gas to allow you to react to a situation, assess it and ascend while making all necessary or recommended stops. Even if you're solo, there's also a decent chance that you'll have enough gas to return to the line and ascend normally, especially if the pony is an adjunct to a buddy and a team that properly planned its gas management. Finally, its pretty easy to handle as its reasonably neutral.

I use mine for deco dives when an AL80 is not required. I don't even notice it once I'm in the water.