Please Tell me That This is a Joke ?

[ERIC.K]

Wow, what an interesting discussion. It tells me that I need to videotape our next tan delta production. When you see how these are made, you'll think I'm crazy for not charging more. In the meantime, join us on March 15th in Weeki Wachee, I will be the guest of Hal Watts and Net Doc who has arranged with ScubaNews and Scuba Radio to give the Excellerating Force Fin and many other models a try. We'll have fun.

Thank you for entering the discussion, I cannot deny the fact that you have many followers, I would love to try them out one day but I feel as though they just wouldn't sell me. I would have no problem paying $150.00 for the original force fin, not much more than my Mares Quattros, but the force fin still hasn't in my eyes claimed any national acceptance, In fact I haven't even seen a pair to be quite honest with you at any dive shop. I've maybe seen 1-2 pairs on dive boats, the last pair I seen was hanging up at the wheel house, the owner of the force fins strapped on a pair of twin jets. Word of mouth travels fast especially in the scuba world...why do you suppose that the many that love them haven't hooked others divers? unwillingness to try other things maybe. they certainly are radical. I'm more than a skeptic however not unwilling to try new things, maybe one day...not March 15th, if given the opportunity that I would certainly try them. I have no doubt that love, craftmanship, dedication, and heart goes into every tandelta you produce, but I fail to see any benefts from paying $800.00 for a pair, especially since there are so many excellant choices out there using traditional blade technology, nevertheless fin doc, I wish you many sales and always safe diving

 

[MarkUK]

Thank you for entering the discussion, I cannot deny the fact that you have many followers, I would love to try them out one day but I feel as though they just wouldn't sell me. I would have no problem paying $150.00 for the original force fin, not much more than my Mares Quattros, but the force fin still hasn't in my eyes claimed any national acceptance, In fact I haven't even seen a pair to be quite honest with you at any dive shop. I've maybe seen 1-2 pairs on dive boats, the last pair I seen was hanging up at the wheel house, the owner of the force fins strapped on a pair of twin jets. Word of mouth travels fast especially in the scuba world...why do you suppose that the many that love them haven't hooked others divers? unwillingness to try other things maybe. they certainly are radical. I'm more than a skeptic however not unwilling to try new things, maybe one day...not March 15th, if given the opportunity that I would certainly try them. I have no doubt that love, craftmanship, dedication, and heart goes into every tandelta you produce, but I fail to see any benefts from paying $800.00 for a pair, especially since there are so many excellant choices out there using traditional blade technology, nevertheless fin doc, I wish you many sales and always safe diving

Choice of fin is personal, and so as has been said previously, one size does not fit all. I personally don't like Jet Fins, but many of my buddies swear by them, and that's great. Equally, I love my FFs, others don't - that is how it goes. However, I'm logging around 300 dives a year at the moment, and in all my trips, I have seen quite a few pairs of FFs on dive boats, and that is in the Caribbean, Middle East, Mediterranean, South Africa, Thailand and the UK. I personally have got more than 40 people turned on to them, after they tried them out in the water. Some have tried them and not liked them, others have persevered (it does take a few dives to get used to them) and have never looked back. I think the main reason you will never see FFs in as great a number as Quattros or similar is because 1) even the Pro is still at the more-expensive end of the market, and 2) admittedly, they do look weird. Many people care what others think of their equipment choices, whereas I couldn't give a s*** - if it works well for me, I don't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks. As I said before, each to their own.

And if someone wants to blow US$800 on a pair of Tan Deltas, good luck to them. If they've got the money and want to spend it, let 'em. My mate paid huge bucks for a set of carbon-fibre forks for his MTB, and they weren't massively lighter than my much-cheaper RockShox. His reason for getting them? They were made of carbon-fibre and looked cool! He's got money to burn, that's his choice. Same with the TDs.

Mark

 

[The Chairman]

Bob approached me about a year ago about trying his fins. I told him that I have my very first pair of Jets that I bought from Hal Watts back in 1969. They are too small for me now, but my daughter continues to use them. I tried twin jets about ten years ago, and you might find some posts from me about how I liked them. HOWEVER, I went and bought the right size JetFin about eight years ago, and I have used them exclusively since.

However, I have to say that I have just had ankle surgery where they took off the Achilles repaired it, took off some bone spurs and then reattached it. That was six weeks ago, and frankly, I think that the Jets might be a bit much, especially at first. So, Hal (who sold me my first pair of fins), Bob and my podiatrist, Dr Hoover will be heading to Weeki Wachee Springs to test Bob's Fins. Yes, I will be bringing not only my Jets, but my Twin Jets, and there are a couple of others that I want to try out.

How will this affect my ankle? How will it affect my kick? I am a dyed in the wool frog kicker, but can I continue? Bob has told me that the fin he wants me to try is user adjustable. That might make it perfect for me, or like my Twin Jets turn out to be another gimmick. Bob is putting his fin on the line here. If you are in the area, I invite you to join us for the Night Dive... it's one where we will have SOMEONE ELSE do the MC bit, 'cuase I am DIVING.

 

[Walter]

Wow, what an interesting discussion. It tells me that I need to videotape our next tan delta production. When you see how these are made, you'll think I'm crazy for not charging more. In the meantime, join us on March 15th in Weeki Wachee, I will be the guest of Hal Watts and Net Doc who has arranged with ScubaNews and Scuba Radio to give the Excellerating Force Fin and many other models a try. We'll have fun.

Crazy for not charging more? Perhaps you are using a process that is very expensive. Perhaps there isn't a cheaper way to produce these fins. Perhaps you should actually charge more for this model. OTOH, perhaps no fin can be good enough to be worth that much more than other fins. If a pair of fins allowed me to move as I wanted, when I wanted, exactly how I wanted and did so without any energy output on my part at all, I would not pay $786.25 for them because even if they were that good (which is impossible) the benefit would not be worth the cost.

 

[Otter]

Wow, what an interesting discussion. It tells me that I need to videotape our next tan delta production. When you see how these are made, you'll think I'm crazy for not charging more. In the meantime, join us on March 15th in Weeki Wachee, I will be the guest of Hal Watts and Net Doc who has arranged with ScubaNews and Scuba Radio to give the Excellerating Force Fin and many other models a try. We'll have fun.

Its a common misconception that price is based upon cost. Price is based upon value. If you walk down the street and find a $20 bill. You wouldn't give it to someone for $10 despite the fact that the cost to you was $0.

A business can survive without making a profit, but (paraphrasing Peter Drucker, its not the buyer's obligation to make sure the supplier makes a profit). Its your job to make a product at a sustainable cost WHILE demonstrating its value to justify the price you are charging.

So to my previous question, what are the features and benefits of this fin that justify a 4x to 5x price difference with other fins?

 

[jeraldjcook]

Price is based upon value.

And value is subjective. Personally, I think $800+ for a pair of fins is ridiculous. Even $250 is ridiculous when you can by a pair of Jets for $65 at LP. But if Mr. Evans wants to sell his uber fins for $800 let him. I'm sure there are a few divers out there who have regular FFs and are willing to spend the extra money for a fin that is marginally/substantially (I've never used a FF so I don't know) better. If the only way to produce this marginally/substantially better fin is using this apparently expensive process, price it so and let the consumer decided if benefits outweigh the substantial jump in cost.

And don't forget, they're signed by Mr. Evans.

 

[Walter]

...and as P. T. Barnum said.............

 

[covediver]

Wow, it is hard to believe that this product can engender this kind of controversy as long as it has.

I first became aware of Forcefins in the late 1980s when they had a small place off Anacapa street in Santa Barbara. I also think that Marineland was featuring force fins in the swim through reef and shark experience. The design has always been met skeptically, there have been a small group of fanatical users, a large group of detractors, a largely ambivalent general diving population, and a great marketing program. This is a company that doesn't have a sales rep on Scubaboard, it has an ambassador-in-residence.

I tried their fins a number of times over the years, did not like the performance for the price and find them aesthetically displeasing. But I am not the minister of culture and sport and to look at my gear you would conclude I am not a trend setter, upscale, nor sophisticated. In other words, not a member of the target audience.

 

[Pearldiver07]

My fiance' will only dive FF. Not the tan delta's for sure, but she's devoted to them. Of course, I caveat this with her also being a left-handed mac user, but I digress...

I've tried the FF and can say that I do get great propulsion and the kicking style does reinforce the proper horizontal trim. That said, she keeps her fins and I keep mine. I just couldn't get used to the feel of them.

OK - I'm sure that this will get hit too. So here goes...

 

[Otter]

Wow, it is hard to believe that this product can engender this kind of controversy as long as it has. snip...

Covediver, I think you are missing the point. The majority of the controversy surrounds a set of fins that cost nearly $800. Those could be from Atomic, Apollo, ScubaPro, Mares, etc... and you would still get people wondering 'why'?

I am sure there are divers out there questioning FF fins in general, and those comments creep in, I haven't tried them so I am withholding my opinion on them.

I 'still' would like to know what features and benefits are provided by these $800 fins.