Please suggest BC for new diver.

[Eric Sedletzky]

Well, I sure would like to know what was done wrong in "setting it up"

If you were diving a pre made pre set up commercially produced back inflate then set up is perhaps more limited than a steel plate.
One way to try and minimize the face plant on surface syndrome is to use a big negative steel tank, place more weight in the rear pockets, and don’t over inflate it on the surface. Over inflation on the surface is one major contributing factor to face planting and this many times is caused by over weighting. Divers carry way too much weight and in order to stay floating they must pump a lot of air into the wing and the bladder floats up pushing them face forward. A plate adds some weight on your back which helps counter the lift of the wing which helps. Back pads also add lift to your backside which certainly doesn’t help. Plates eliminate this but not always, there are some plates out that have padding.
I would say the number one reason people get face planted is because they are carrying too much lead and that lead is probably all put from center forward in pockets which will work to pull the diver forward face down. Combine the two and you have a classic face plant.
Also, back inflates do not allow for the diver to be floating high and dry like a buoy like it’s possible in a wrap around jacket. You sit lower in the water sometimes eye level with inflates either BP/W or conventional, and that’s something you have to get used to. If you like to be high up out of the water and even then use a regular jacket BC.

 

[drrich2]

Also, back inflates do not allow for the diver to be floating high and dry like a buoy like it’s possible in a wrap around jacket. You sit lower in the water sometimes eye level with inflates either BP/W or conventional, and that’s something you have to get used to. If you like to be high up out of the water and even then use a regular jacket BC.

Thank you. This is an expectation that doesn't consistently get communicated well in discussions about BP/W. The sentiment I've gotten before was basically 'Don't over-inflate and you're fine.' Some people accustomed to jacket BC's wouldn't equate floating eye level with 'fine' (especially since snorkels are often disdained on the forum, and surface conditions may be choppy).

Much as is true when we discuss dive destinations, it may be worthwhile to help tailor expectations in advance.

 

[mcohen1021]

Thanks for that.

So, i only use 5# on Caribbean dives with a 1.5 mil heater top. Mostly the heater top is to prevent sunburn and chafing. .

So i know I'm not overweighted, and i was only using the trim pockets (which has its own set of risks i know).

Tank choice isn't realistic bc its typically vacation driving.

My new jacket style bc floated me high, no face down, with weights in the removable weight pockets. And i had zero issue with staying horizontal in the water.

Wait till y'all see the pics and trip review from Bahamas Aggressor last week, it was AWESOME

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Thank you. This is an expectation that doesn't consistently get communicated well in discussions about BP/W. The sentiment I've gotten before was basically 'Don't over-inflate and you're fine.' Some people accustomed to jacket BC's wouldn't equate floating eye level with 'fine' (especially since snorkels are often disdained on the forum, and surface conditions may be choppy).

Much as is true when we discuss dive destinations, it may be worthwhile to help tailor expectations in advance.

Good point about sitting low in the water and snorkels. I think it’s tragic how snorkels are ripped on on this forum, mostly by people who dive in situations where snorkels are not needed and they have a religious zealotry against them. They love to swerve out of their lane to make sure they never miss an opportunity to make fun of someone who uses one.
Whenever I see any snorkel bashing I try and do my part to provide an opposing opinion for the new divers that tend to get swayed and even brainwashed to a degree.
Snorkels are incredibly useful tools for surface swimming in certain conditions.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Thanks for that.

So, i only use 5# on Caribbean dives with a 1.5 mil heater top. Mostly the heater top is to prevent sunburn and chafing. .

So i know I'm not overweighted, and i was only using the trim pockets (which has its own set of risks i know).

Tank choice isn't realistic bc its typically vacation driving.

My new jacket style bc floated me high, no face down, with weights in the removable weight pockets. And i had zero issue with staying horizontal in the water.

Wait till y'all see the pics and trip review from Bahamas Aggressor last week, it was AWESOME

Excellent.
People just have to use what they like and what works for them. You used and tried a back inflate system and hated it. I respect that because you tried. Just because someone chooses to use a jacket style BC does not make them any less of a diver or less “pro” in any way. Look at Dr. Bill (god rest his soul) he used a jacket for years with thousands of dives and he was about as professional as it gets. If a diver keeps their fins off the bottom and doesn’t kick and destroy the reef, keeps their gauges and/or console clipped and not hanging down bashing and wrecking ball the coral, etc. and otherwise dives in a respectable manner it makes no difference what style BC they’re using.

BTW, this is coming from a guy who manufactures back plates.

 

[Belzelbub]

Excellent.
People just have to use what they like and what works for them. You used and tried a back inflate system and hated it. I respect that because you tried. Just because someone chooses to use a jacket style BC does not make them any less of a diver or less “pro” in any way.

Well said. There are lots of different styles of gear. That’s great, because there are lots of different types of divers, and lots of different types of diving to be done. Finding out what works best can only really be done by trying different things.

 

[Chavodel8en]

Thank you. This is an expectation that doesn't consistently get communicated well in discussions about BP/W. The sentiment I've gotten before was basically 'Don't over-inflate and you're fine.' Some people accustomed to jacket BC's wouldn't equate floating eye level with 'fine' (especially since snorkels are often disdained on the forum, and surface conditions may be choppy).

Much as is true when we discuss dive destinations, it may be worthwhile to help tailor expectations in advance.

Agreed. BP/W proponents need to be accurate and fully discuss, instead of pooh-poohing the issue. You will float higher in a jacket vs. a back-inflate. RELATIVELY, back-inflates will push you a bit face forward v. a jacket.

Now, its not something thats a problem for me. I inflate my BP/W fully and I feel comfortable on the surface (although I am mostly on my back swimming). But if someone really wants their head to float very high out of the water, then a back-inflate is not for them, they will prefer jackets.

 

[mcohen1021]

(although I am mostly on my back swimming)

Exactly. Which is what I do not want to do. Too much effort.

 

[Marie13]

Good point about sitting low in the water and snorkels. I think it’s tragic how snorkels are ripped on on this forum, mostly by people who dive in situations where snorkels are not needed and they have a religious zealotry against them. They love to swerve out of their lane to make sure they never miss an opportunity to make fun of someone who uses one.
Whenever I see any snorkel bashing I try and do my part to provide an opposing opinion for the new divers that tend to get swayed and even brainwashed to a degree.
Snorkels are incredibly useful tools for surface swimming in certain conditions.

There are instructors who seem to pound the “you never EVER dive without a snorkel” mindset into students. I’ve overheard it at the local quarry. I’ve had instructors ask me where my snorkel is when I’m diving SM with a long hose on my own. I just laugh and tell them snorkels don’t go into caves.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

There are instructors who seem to pound the “you never EVER dive without a snorkel” mindset into students. I’ve overheard it at the local quarry. I’ve had instructors ask me where my snorkel is when I’m diving SM with a long hose on my own. I just laugh and tell them snorkels don’t go into caves.

It should be: You should consider using a snorkel if the conditions and location may best be served by using a snorkel for your surface swim,…NOT - “never EVER dive without a snorkel”, without understanding their use, and uselessness. That type of mentality is just as ignorant and idiotic as the ones who say a snorkel is useless in ALL scuba diving situations. My answer to them is “You obviously have never had to do a surface swim over kelp and do the kelp crawl on your belly, picking out your path of navigation looking forward and down whilst saving your precious tank air, have you?”