Playing with the UTD Z-system

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Oh, and I'm going to guess it was more the rigging than anything else. Here's a video of my first monkey dive. At 5:07, you'll see me hanging motionless, no finning at all, and no rolling...

Yeah, but that's because you're Rob Neto!


:giggle:
 
Well, Rob, what I actually see is you a bit left-side down, and finning periodically . . . I'm not talking about being any more off-balance than that. I just don't like being off-balance, period.

Lynne, how much do you think could be due to your size versus the unmatched tanks?

I was flabbergasted to find that the weight of a pony (only the valve, actually!) caused me to list, until I put a 1.5-lb weight opposite.
 
I was flabbergasted to find that the weight of a pony (only the valve, actually!) caused me to list, until I put a 1.5-lb weight opposite.
I doubt that's what's causing your problem. I'm only 6ft and about 180lbs, and I've had 2xAL80's and also an AL40 all on my left side without any real rolling issues.
 
I doubt that's what's causing your problem. I'm only 6ft and about 180lbs, and I've had 2xAL80's and also an AL40 all on my left side without any real rolling issues.

O, rly? I drop the pony, and no more listing. I pick it up, and over I go. Put weight opposite, and I'm trim again.

Any other explanation?
 
With wings that taco, you can compensate extra weight on one side with extra air.

Here's an example from backmount, but concept is the same.
wing_balancing_stage.jpg


The Z trim device doesn't taco. So you have to compensate with body or weight. Or if you're diving dry, you can use that to adjust.
 
Exactly, Don!

What intrigues me a little is how folks with wings like the Nomad stabilize themselves with stages on one side -- I would think that having the tabs holding the wing down along the edges would create somewhat of the same difficulty with parking gas to offset the additional weight. I didn't carry a stage with the Nomad, so I don't know how you do it or how well it works.

I do want to reiterate that the equipment I got to play with is, at this time, ONLY being represented as a recreational setup for monkey diving. MY personal interest in it was with its potential as a sidemount rig (sparked by AG's video blog about that) but in no way did Jeff represent it as being that. In fact, his plan had been only for us to use a single tank while playing with it.
 
UCF -- I'm pretty sure there is a significant difference in the "tank effect" on TSandM as opposed to you or me. Just because a couple of pounds doesn't effect you, a 180 pound male, doesn't mean those couple of pounds won't effect a 110 pound female. There are, in fact, LOTS of differences in addition to the weight difference.

I had the same setup as Lynne and was solid -- but then MY Z-system didn't "float" on me like hers did which could well have been part of her problem with trim -- or at least the perception of trim. (Note, in thinking about what I just wrote, I KNOW Lynne perceives her body position differently so it could have been, in reality, "ALL in her mind!" -- but I digress.)

I liked the manifold and thought it was a very nice addition. Yes, it does create a few more "failure points" but, to my mind, the whole concept of "failure points" is way overblown. Besides, these are static points so, in reality, is there much increase in risk? I doubt it. And it does solve problem I had when Monkey diving in the Red Sea by making donation to another scooter pilot reasonable. (BTW, we had 5 foot hoses on the primary so donation while scooting is feasible.)

Did I ever dump the wing entirely? Probably not but I didn't have much air in it. Had it been dumped entirely, I would have splatted on the bottom of the pool (I had put 4 lbs of weight into the trim pockets of the Z). I just didn't care about my weighting -- it was close enough in that I could drop, I could hover, I could go up!

For the Nay Sayers out there in SB-land, just because it isn't "the old way" or "the minimalist way" doesn't mean it is a wrong or bad way. As it is now, for recreational diving, it seems to be a nice, easy way to attach an AL 80 to you and have a donatable reg -- and all in a package that weighs 15 pounds and EASILY fits into a carryon. One might say, it is approaching the "perfect" rig for tropical, recreational, travel diving! It certainly is a lot simpler, lighter and convenient than my BP/W setup.
 
O, rly? I drop the pony, and no more listing. I pick it up, and over I go. Put weight opposite, and I'm trim again.

Any other explanation?
To be honest, I can't tell you without seeing you. I know that you've added a new gear config recently, and posted several struggles in it. I waited about 25 side mount dives before even considering handling a deco bottle or scooter, because I wanted a solid foundation and don't like the stress caused from adding gear too soon.

I can tell you that when my wing is too tight, it causes the uneven tank weight to become more noticeable. My first instinct was to tighten the wing as much as possible, so that it couldn't taco at all, but that cause stability issues. Now I allow a slight taco, here's a video where you can see it over my shoulders
[vimeo]15179572[/vimeo]

Here's another video (I'm the one without a helmet)
[vimeo]15491558[/vimeo]

I would be hesitant to use weights to counterbalance because if you drop a tank, now you're unbalanced in the opposite direction.
 
As it is now, for recreational diving, it seems to be a nice, easy way to attach an AL 80 to you and have a donatable reg -- and all in a package that weighs 15 pounds and EASILY fits into a carryon.

...or you can add an additional second stage to the first stage. Keeps everything in view and routing is not a problem, nor is donating.
 
I would be hesitant to use weights to counterbalance because if you drop a tank, now you're unbalanced in the opposite direction.

Sorry - I was talking about this summer, when in a single BP/W and carried a 30cf pony. I hadn't quite been convinced to go sidemount, yet . . . . :) It's ALL Kevin's fault!

My point was that it doesn't seem to take much to 'tilt' a little person.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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