Planned deco on a recreational dive?

[boulderjohn]

Well, I didn't suggest that and I know nothing about NAUI, so can't comment. With PADI, you really don't know what you will get is my experience so far

My niece is a certified scuba diver through NAUI. She is afraid to dive. She had one pool session two hours long. She did one OW dive to a depth of 10 feet. Then she was certified.

A NAUI instructor I know of does not go into the water with the students. He sits in a chair beside the pool and tells them what to do. He was reported to NAUI headquarters, but they decided not to intervene.

I am sure from what you have posted earlier that will now be able to explain why that shows that PADI is the only agency providing crap instruction.

 

[wbatten1]

So, now this has turned into an agency bashing thread?

I have plenty of bad experiences with instructors from all major agencies. I have even more good experiences with other instructors from those same agencies. We all know that instructor selection is much more important than agency selection, so why are we smashing two different types of apples together? Are we making apple juice? I like apple juice...

OP, agency selection isn't overly important, however each one handles courses slightly different. For example, you're familiar with OW training through PADI. NAUI teaches how to recover an unconscious diver from depth. SDI teaches computers instead of tables. Slightly different approaches, but all teach you how to dive safely. That is, assuming you have a good instructor.
I know you mentioned plans to become a TDI diver in the future... The differences between agencies with technical diving is far greater than the differences between recreational. For example, max depth limits while breathing air is 130' for NAUI (Technical Decompression Diver), 165' for PADI (TEC50), and 180' for TDI (Extended Range Diver).
To hit that 150' you eluded to doing one day, you could take PADI's TEC40 and TEC45. Or you could take TDI's Intro To Tech, Advanced Nitrox, and Decompression Procedures. (AN/DP is commonly bundled together.) Or you could take NAUI's Intro to Tec, Technical Decompression Diver, and Helitrox Diver. (TDD/HD are commonly bundled together.) Three different agencies, three incredibly different approaches to technical diving, yet all teach you how to dive safely to 150'... PADI and TDI on air, NAUI on Helitrox.
Am I confusing you yet? Good! Your best bet to be able to do the dive mentioned in the original post is to seek out a technical dive instructor and ask them about the progression through their technical courses. Ask what and when something is learned, gear configuration requirements, whether computers, tables, or both will be used during the course, what decompression algorithm is used and why, etc. Then rinse and repeat with an instructor from a different agency. Keep doing it until you find an instructor that's right for you and an agency that best suits you. Have fun decompressing!

 

[boulderjohn]

So, now this has turned into an agency bashing thread?

Yes, it has, and it should end now.

The simple truth is that all agencies have great instructors, all agencies have crap agencies, and most of the instructors in all agencies lie in between. The problem is that some people have it in their heads that all the instructors in one agency are crap, and all the instructors in another specific agency of their choosing are blessed by God. The most common of these are the reflexive PADI bashers. They repeat mindless attacks, often saying that they once saw an incompetent PADI instructor, meaning that the many hundreds of thousands of other PADI instructors must necessarily be crap, too. If you combine that belief with the "agency blessed by God" attitude, it can be insufferable. Ironically, I know three dive operations that teach "agency blessed by God" courses, and all three also teach PADI courses. Apparently the instructors change ability based upon the courses they are teaching.

When I see PADI bashers busily bashing, it is very frustrating. I know that there is good and bad instruction everywhere. I do not believe for a minute the horrible NAUI instruction I mentioned represents that fine agency in any way. It is simply an attempt to point out what should be obvious to any thinking person.

 

[george_austin]

In history's remote past, we taught ourselves deco diving out of the US Navy Diving Manual at the public library and then did some simulated deco dives with drag lines and inner tubes from 50 ft water at the beach.
Everyone says nowadays that there is no scuba police but that's a myth - just read these replies.

If I didn't know these jokers and clowns (the guys who want to do the 45m dive with 10 minute deco) I wouldn't be particularly interested in helping them out unless they were telling me they're going to recover a ton of pirate treasure and I'm getting a cut.

I'd beg off his one. Doesn't feel right somehow.

Totally different response if I'm going to do it with my friends - why not?

 

[tursiops]

In history's remote past, we taught ourselves deco diving out of the US Navy Diving Manual at the public library and then did some simulated deco dives with drag lines and inner tubes from 50 ft water at the beach.
Everyone says nowadays that there is no scuba police but that's a myth - just read these replies.

If I didn't know these jokers and clowns (the guys who want to do the 45m dive with 10 minute deco) I wouldn't be particularly interested in helping them out unless they were telling me they're going to recover a ton of pirate treasure and I'm getting a cut.

I'd beg off his one. Doesn't feel right somehow.

Totally different response if I'm going to do it with my friends - why not?

In history's remote past, there were no alternate first stages, no BCDs, no decent exposure suits, no safety stops, and blind acceptance that the Navy tables were the be-all and end-all. We've developed and learned a lot since then.
What is your point?

 

[Bob DBF]

In history's remote past, there were no alternate first stages, no BCDs, no decent exposure suits, no safety stops, and blind acceptance that the Navy tables were the be-all and end-all. We've developed and learned a lot since then.

Does that mean you approve of the dive plan?

It was not just the tables you learned when learning deco diving back in the day. One thing I learned, and is probably George's point, is you don't go on potentially a dangerous dive with someone you have not had dive experience with, unless it is worth a lot to you, i.e. a ton of pirate treasure. If you are doing the exact same dive with divers you know and trust it would be a different story.

A tech diver and his friends who are experienced rec divers are going on a 45 meter deco dive and invite along a rec diver they have not had previous experience with in the water, what could go wrong.



Bob
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[tursiops]

Does that mean you approve of the dive plan?

No. See post #4.

 

[george_austin]

In history's remote past, there were no alternate first stages, no BCDs, no decent exposure suits, no safety stops, and blind acceptance that the Navy tables were the be-all and end-all. We've developed and learned a lot since then.
What is your point?

I'm not clear what a BCD or an exposure suit has to do with deco diving but, as you say, "blind acceptance on Navy Dive Manual"" seemed rather important because the US Navy was the point of the spear as far as diving science went for quite a few years - at least on this side of the Iron Curtain.

My point is kind of self explanatory, wouldn't you say? - Maybe if I drew you a picture that would help?

 

[tursiops]

I'm not clear what a BCD or an exposure suit has to do with deco diving but, as you say, "blind acceptance on Navy Dive Manual"" seemed rather important because the US Navy was the point of the spear as far as diving science went for quite a few years - at least on this side of the Iron Curtain.

My point is kind of self explanatory, wouldn't you say? - Maybe if I drew you a picture that would help?

And MY point is: you are talking about back then, I am talking about now. We no longer use the same outdated equipment nor dive protocols today, and we dive safer. You can wallow in the past if you want, but I'd rather use today's improved gear and knowledge.

 

[Rusty Roo]

And MY point is: you are talking about back then, I am talking about now. We no longer use the same outdated equipment nor dive protocols today, and we dive safer. You can wallow in the past if you want, but I'd rather use today's improved gear and knowledge.

newer gear or ideas shouldn't be presumed to be improved or safer.