Pit bull coming at me, owner screaming "Vicious NO"

[dlndavid]

I've seen pit bulls brought up without aggressive input, and they are very docile.
They don't know the power they have, it's funny and scary at the same time.

 

[aquaoren]

This is so totally untrue. Even the pit bull advocate sites on the web don't push such nonsense.

You're taking your politically correct dog argument too far. Yes, any dog can be bred badly (why so many labs have hip displasia). Yes, you can train any dog to be vicious.

But pit bulls are far more likely because of their breeding to be aggressive toward other dogs. It's a fact. It's WHAT THEY WERE BRED FOR.

Why, after all, would all dog breeds have miraculously ended up with the EXACT SAME genetic propensity toward aggression, as you seem to suggest? After all, each breed of dog was bred with totally different goals in mind. And yet your stance is that the genetic tendency toward aggression ended up exactly the same in all dog breeds despite so many other genetic differences? It's really absurd on the face of it.

Like I said...political correctness, applied to dogs and taken to a ridiculous extreme...

Humuhumunukunukuapua'a
Again, you are wrong and NadMat is completely correct in his statements.
Explanation here.
Now I'd like to use some quotes from one of your own posts. Please, why wouldn't you apply it to yourself?

you should really familiarize yourself with the conversation before jumping in. The links are several pages back. I'm not going to repost them because you can't be bothered to look.
I do think that attitudes like yours are dangerous and misleading, not because you really care about the debate, but because you're bored.
If you want to get in on the discussion, have the common courtesy to read the thread and stick to the topic.
You need to re-read what I posted before reacting.

 

[aquaoren]

The last link was actually some official Pit Bull site and if you go to the "responsible Pit Bull Owner" page it has five criteria. Guess what number one is? Not to breed these dogs. There is an explosion of them, they say. Why? Because a higher percentage of irresponsible people (uncontrolled litters, fighting, neglect, whatever the reason) have an affinity for these dogs and are allowing them to procreate in an uncontrolled fashion. If you know anything about genetics and assume (incorrectly) that they are all starting the same, this factor alone would naturally select for the most aggressive animals to survive. I am not convinced that there are many pro-Pit people in this debate who really have an understanding of genetics and natural selection. I am guessing Oren does and I cannot explain his position. I would really like to know who has taken genetics and who has not, just for my own understanding. If you have had genetics or have a degree in Biology, I am all ears. Not that your opinion does not matter if you have a Hospitality degree or did not go to college, but there is a point where if you say "natural selection" and someone tells you about their dog Brutus...well..we are going in circles here. It is a multifactorial result, no doubt, but you can argue all day about training and it cannot negate the genetic variable.

Because unfortunately or fortunately, depends how you look at it , I informed myself extensively about this issue and know better than to believe the stupid tirades of the uninformed and uneducated media, other "internet experts" or popular beliefs and misconceptions.
I choose to believe rather real science, made by real scientists that came to the same conclusions in different places all over the world, independently from each other.
This isn't a new discussion. 30 years ago the same discussion was ran about German Shepherds, 20 years ago-Doberman, 10 years ago-Rottweiler and now we have Pit Bulls.
You must know that I lived in Germany when all this breed ban legislation was being pushed through about 7 years ago, so I already went through it once.
These legislation were pushed through against all expert advise and was wrong then and is not right now either.
BTW, non of these legislation have reached the desired effect-dog bites have not decreased but the at least the politician were able to score some points for being "pro-active".

 

[aquaoren]

A "hill billy" woman over here got 4 years in jail for keeping her dogs in a way that made them agressive, and for not having them under control. Not enough if you ask me, but compared to other crimes the penalty is about where it should be. Mind you, her escaped pack of dogs killed a 7 year old boy on the way home from school...

The dogs where not pit bulls. They were huskies. But that's beside the point in the matter.

But this is exactly the point in the matter, don't you think?

 

[CON8IV]

the "pit bulls" of today (of the past 100 years, in fact) have not been bred
to fight.



nope ...

popular (and widespread) misconception

eyebrow

Hi Andy,

I personally knew a guy here who now resides in another state who bred them speciffically for fighting. It is illegal here, but he had no issue telling me what kind of steroids he would give them for bad wounds they recieved in battle and how to treat them, etc. I agree with you on the "locking jaw" story people sometimes tell. They don't work that way.

 

[dpbishop]

Their jaws don't lock, some of them just don't like to let go. I ended up raising and selling a couple of litters of pit bull puppies for my step daughter and you will occasionally get people who ask if any of them have developed the "grip" or the "lock". That's an indication that they want dogs for fighting, and I show them the door.

Pit Bull trainers and breeders use a "bite stick", a wedge shaped piece of hardwood that can be inserted into the mouth behind the teeth and rotated to open the jaws. It works.

 

[Cacia]

not to be a nit-picker, but if the jaws lock or "they just don't let go", how does that make any difference if my body part is in their mouth and I need a bitestick to wedge their mouth open? Body strength, jaw strength all enters the equation too. Seems like some dogs nip aimlessly and other dogs go for the throats...just my impression.

 

[D_B]

I'm so sorry Catherine about your run in with the dog, That would have just scared the s*** out of me .. it would make me mad, not so much at the dog, but at his owner, dumb, stupid sob

Quote:
"You cannot raise a border collie to be a champion fighting dog, and you cannot raise a cocker spaniel to work rough stock. A retriever won't win at the dog track, and a greyhound won't lead the blind."

I just don't think that's as true as you make it sound


My take on all this .... bad attitudes are given to a dog, any dog ... they are not "born that way", but they're smart and learn very well

DB

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

Originally Posted by KOMPRESSOR
A "hill billy" woman over here got 4 years in jail for keeping her dogs in a way that made them agressive, and for not having them under control. Not enough if you ask me, but compared to other crimes the penalty is about where it should be. Mind you, her escaped pack of dogs killed a 7 year old boy on the way home from school...

The dogs where not pit bulls. They were huskies. But that's beside the point in the matter.

But this is exactly the point in the matter, don't you think?

Nope. One can have a very good reason for keeping a pack of huskies, although one has to be careful with them since they aren't excactly house pets when kept in large numbers for sledpulling. -But it is a good reason to keep them, and they (the huskies!) are very happy with their lifestyle! So are my english setters, which is the breed I have chosen for bird hunting purposes. They are also great housepets, but I would recommend anyone another kind of dog if they don't do grouse hunting, because they need to fulfill their insticts and will be very restless if they aren't let to.

My sister has two specially trained rottweilers. She uses them in her work as a security officer (night watch). They are not "sharp" and agressive and are not at all trained to bite, but they make a great growl on command and certainly look like they are "ready". It takes an experienced dog owner to keep them. I would not recomend them either if only as "housepets".

And at last, as housepets I would certainly NOT recommend pit bulls! So then what other "motivation" is there really for keeping these dogs? You tell me?

You guys live in a country where many of you own handguns just "because you can". With a handgun, at least it ONLY depends on the owner what it should be used for. A pit has (believe it or not!) brains and muscles, although perhaps most of the latter. I see no reasons to let "anyone" own a pit just so they can "excercise their rights", just as much as I don't see any reasons why everyone should be allowed to own a handgun. -I own three handguns. I'm a handgun instructor...

 

[H2Andy]

I personally knew a guy here who now resides in another state who bred them speciffically for fighting. It is illegal here, but he had no issue telling me what kind of steroids he would give them for bad wounds they recieved in battle and how to treat them, etc.

i am ignoring your argument because it makes sense...

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