H2Andy
Contributor
WOW!!
nice boat, man....
and nice dogs...
i'm jealous
nice boat, man....
and nice dogs...
i'm jealous
Pit bull coming at me, owner screaming "Vicious NO"
- Thread starter Ber Rabbit
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KOMPRESSOR
Contributor
catherine96821:
That's Lise. She's 6 years old. She has a little sister (4) named Siri and a protective and loving older sister Maja (soon 11) who by the way just got her CMAS* Free Diving certificate (Certified by her instructor-father, namely me. No short cuts, I promise!
)Lise = "Lees-seh"
Siri = "See-ree"
Maja = "Mah-yah"
As far as Norwegian pronounciation goes... My name? Forget it! They'd just call me Big Ray in Seattle I remember... Or "the 190 lbs guy" on the wrestling team...
Oh, and the dogs...
Skott = Shot (11 yrs)
Sot = Soot (15 months)
H2Andy
Contributor
catherine96821:
dang it, the perfidous swine
he added the child after i looked at the pics!
yes, the girl is beautiful too! (but not there when i looked)
Dang that was a lot of reading. Bit in the a@# by my pledge to read entire post before replying.
While respecting Catherines right to choose which dogs she wants her children around, I must caution that saying Breed A is always dangerous and Breed B is not does not sound to me like a wise or well reasoned choice. Any dog of any breed can be dangerous.
Nature vs nurture... both work together to determine the dogs behaviour, but I believe that nurture is the greater determining factor. That being said, there are some dogs that are overly aggressive and cannot be trained or nurtured out of that behaviour. A responsible dog breeder or owner will put down a dog who is overly aggressive or cannot be controlled or contain them and prevent them from breeding. But that is true for all breeds, not just pits, rotts, or whatever breed someone may have decided are dangerous.
If a dog is bad, whether thru nature or nurture, then that dog will be more dangerous if they are a large, strong breed than if they are a a dog that you can simply punt away. But in my experience, I have found small dogs more likely to bite than large ones. Most are not intent on killing or eating you, they are just playing dominance games.
I have owned an Austrian Sheperd (kinda like a german sheperd) and two Australian Sheperds, and love all dogs and animals. I have friends with pitts, and with rotts and with dobies, aussies, rhodesian ridgebacks, border collies, collies, heelers, daushunds, chiuauas, dog breeds ad nausem. I have found that while a particular breed will share some similiar traits (that is the purpose of breeding them after all, to refine those traits) , each dog is an individual and will behave in a unique and sometimes unpredictible way.
In the end, I have to go with those who say 'blame the owner, not the dog'.
JMAO
While respecting Catherines right to choose which dogs she wants her children around, I must caution that saying Breed A is always dangerous and Breed B is not does not sound to me like a wise or well reasoned choice. Any dog of any breed can be dangerous.
Nature vs nurture... both work together to determine the dogs behaviour, but I believe that nurture is the greater determining factor. That being said, there are some dogs that are overly aggressive and cannot be trained or nurtured out of that behaviour. A responsible dog breeder or owner will put down a dog who is overly aggressive or cannot be controlled or contain them and prevent them from breeding. But that is true for all breeds, not just pits, rotts, or whatever breed someone may have decided are dangerous.
If a dog is bad, whether thru nature or nurture, then that dog will be more dangerous if they are a large, strong breed than if they are a a dog that you can simply punt away. But in my experience, I have found small dogs more likely to bite than large ones. Most are not intent on killing or eating you, they are just playing dominance games.
I have owned an Austrian Sheperd (kinda like a german sheperd) and two Australian Sheperds, and love all dogs and animals. I have friends with pitts, and with rotts and with dobies, aussies, rhodesian ridgebacks, border collies, collies, heelers, daushunds, chiuauas, dog breeds ad nausem. I have found that while a particular breed will share some similiar traits (that is the purpose of breeding them after all, to refine those traits) , each dog is an individual and will behave in a unique and sometimes unpredictible way.
In the end, I have to go with those who say 'blame the owner, not the dog'.
JMAO
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So Nadmat, when you "blame the owner", what does that mean in real life?
And of course not all are good or bad, I did not say that. I would not leave my little kids with a Pit Bull. I totally respect people's right to leave their kids with the neighbor's Pit Bull. I just said I choose not to because of what I think about their gene pool and the fundamental nature of their temperments. But then, you know that if you read all these bloody posts....how do you account for the reputation they have? Are you saying it is unwarranted, a "bum rap" because they are so ugly or what? Do you think one type of shark is more aggressive than another?
"Dominance games" translates into the propensity to attack.
And of course not all are good or bad, I did not say that. I would not leave my little kids with a Pit Bull. I totally respect people's right to leave their kids with the neighbor's Pit Bull. I just said I choose not to because of what I think about their gene pool and the fundamental nature of their temperments. But then, you know that if you read all these bloody posts....how do you account for the reputation they have? Are you saying it is unwarranted, a "bum rap" because they are so ugly or what? Do you think one type of shark is more aggressive than another?
"Dominance games" translates into the propensity to attack.
catherine96821:
Yeah, don't worry. I have
Komp - great dogs!!!! Not to mention daughter and the boat
BTW all I can say is that (forgive the spelling - no clue how to spell this) yey ikke norsk
Mania
Catherine
" blame the owner, not the dog " means that since we humans have 'created' dog through selective breeding, that it is our ultimate responsibility to make sure that our 'creations' behave themselves. That means if you have a dog, it is your responsibility to either keep it under control and not a danger to others, or to destroy it. Even when dogs are really schitzy from birth, all nature not nuture, the problem is usually bad breeding (most often inbreeding, which is one of the ways we humans 'select' for desired traits), which is something we have done to them.
If I was king instead of GW, I would make laws to punish owners for out of control animals, rather than just kill the dog and slap the owner on the wrist with a fine. And the ASPCA would have more funding than the DEA.
As for not leaving your kids with a pit, it is probably not a bad decision, but just wanted to make sure you realized that leaving them with any dog of any breed could be dangerous, and that you would be better off leaving kids with a well breed and raised pit than with a 'good' breed of dog with a dumbass owner who has not properly raised the dog. Kinda like with people, you can't judge them by their cover, you must spend time interacting with them and get to know them before you know how far you can trust them. And even those you have known and come to trust can sometimes violate that trust for no good reason that you can find.
But most of the aggressiveness in a 'bad' pitt is something that while somewhat a breed trait, is brought out by the owner because that is why they got a dog with a 'mean' reputation, they wanted to be a badass. The same problems exist with Rotties, dobermans, German sheperds, to some extent all the bigger dogs.
Dominance games are not so much a propensity to attack, as they are the dog trying to find his place in society. A dog that does not know his proper place in the pack is confused and unpredictable, which is why those owners who refuse to take the alpha role in their 'pack' end up with problem dogs. If the dog understands his place in the pack, he will be following the owners lead.
That is why it is so important to socialize pups with people and dogs as soon as they are through the first round of puppy shots and it is safe to do so, they need to see how to interact with others, including those who are not 'pack' members. They need to learn that it is not their place to dominate others.
So I guess what I am trying to get across is that to consider all of a breed bad because you know of some bad ones, is equivelent to dog racism. I understand your point that pits have been 'bred' to fight, but actually they are bred to be more likely to survive a fight that they (and all other breeds) come to naturally as part of the struggle for pack territory.
Even our beloved Aussies can end up as 'bad' dogs through either lack of/wrong training or continued poor breeding practices. And if you don't think aussies play dominance games too, you are in strong denial. But once your dogs are secure in their place in their 'pack', the games become a much more subtle thing, like who gets first dibs at water bowl, or that choice spot on the tile in front of the sliding door.
Once again, JMAO
" blame the owner, not the dog " means that since we humans have 'created' dog through selective breeding, that it is our ultimate responsibility to make sure that our 'creations' behave themselves. That means if you have a dog, it is your responsibility to either keep it under control and not a danger to others, or to destroy it. Even when dogs are really schitzy from birth, all nature not nuture, the problem is usually bad breeding (most often inbreeding, which is one of the ways we humans 'select' for desired traits), which is something we have done to them.
If I was king instead of GW, I would make laws to punish owners for out of control animals, rather than just kill the dog and slap the owner on the wrist with a fine. And the ASPCA would have more funding than the DEA.
As for not leaving your kids with a pit, it is probably not a bad decision, but just wanted to make sure you realized that leaving them with any dog of any breed could be dangerous, and that you would be better off leaving kids with a well breed and raised pit than with a 'good' breed of dog with a dumbass owner who has not properly raised the dog. Kinda like with people, you can't judge them by their cover, you must spend time interacting with them and get to know them before you know how far you can trust them. And even those you have known and come to trust can sometimes violate that trust for no good reason that you can find.
But most of the aggressiveness in a 'bad' pitt is something that while somewhat a breed trait, is brought out by the owner because that is why they got a dog with a 'mean' reputation, they wanted to be a badass. The same problems exist with Rotties, dobermans, German sheperds, to some extent all the bigger dogs.
Dominance games are not so much a propensity to attack, as they are the dog trying to find his place in society. A dog that does not know his proper place in the pack is confused and unpredictable, which is why those owners who refuse to take the alpha role in their 'pack' end up with problem dogs. If the dog understands his place in the pack, he will be following the owners lead.
That is why it is so important to socialize pups with people and dogs as soon as they are through the first round of puppy shots and it is safe to do so, they need to see how to interact with others, including those who are not 'pack' members. They need to learn that it is not their place to dominate others.
So I guess what I am trying to get across is that to consider all of a breed bad because you know of some bad ones, is equivelent to dog racism. I understand your point that pits have been 'bred' to fight, but actually they are bred to be more likely to survive a fight that they (and all other breeds) come to naturally as part of the struggle for pack territory.
Even our beloved Aussies can end up as 'bad' dogs through either lack of/wrong training or continued poor breeding practices. And if you don't think aussies play dominance games too, you are in strong denial. But once your dogs are secure in their place in their 'pack', the games become a much more subtle thing, like who gets first dibs at water bowl, or that choice spot on the tile in front of the sliding door.
Once again, JMAO
Wayward Son
Contributor
I don't have any issues with pit bulls or any breed specifically. Any dog that agressively comes after me, any family member or pet of mine, while ignoring the commands of its owner faces extreemly high odds of being ventilated with a .45 caliber hole.
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