Pit bull coming at me, owner screaming "Vicious NO"

[HarryWhisman]

i question the validity of that website. It's bias is unquestionable. I personally think that all that dog could do to a pitbull is maybe drown it with drool.

I looked really hard to find something that said the pits were king of the dog yard, just so I could gig ole half-bull Andy. It didn't work out.:huh: Maybe you could find something.

 

[ThatsSomeBadHatHarry]

I've been standing back and watching this thread for a few days now and there is obviously no convincing the unconvinceable. To those of you that are so adamantly for pit bulls and deny the breeding in of qualities to the bloodline, look back and read what you have said because most of you have contradicted yourselves at least once. conceding to the bred tolerance to pain, fearlessness, and agressiveness and then doing a 180 to say that they are not bred to fight is an asinine statement. "you have to TEACH them to fight" so...two dogs in the wilderness that have never had an owner or anything want to battle...they must just sit there and talk it through because WE have not taught them to fight. thats pretty arrogant. everything knows how to fight, some just better than others. If i was fearless, tolerant to pain, and agressive i bet i would do better and be far more confident than someone without those qualities.

 

[mania]

Y'all keep losing sight of the real discussion, which is whether pit bulls as a breed are pre-disposed to dog aggression. They are.

I don't loose the point in the discussion. In my first post here I wrote cleary.

Every dog is aggresive because it's a PREDATOR. Every dog, including yorkshire terrier can kill - believe it or not I've seen this.

It's not that pit bulls were breed to be agressive. In fact they were breed to be strong. Strong enough to hunt bulls and bears.
Because from the ancient history dogs were trained for HUNTING. Fighting or to be exact baiting came later and was a result of the fact that these dogs were extremly strong.

As simple as this....

You know - wolves are aggresive too. And this where dogs came from.
Mania

 

[HarryWhisman]

I've been standing back and watching this thread for a few days now and there is obviously no convincing the unconvinceable. To those of you that are so adamantly for pit bulls and deny the breeding in of qualities to the bloodline, look back and read what you have said because most of you have contradicted yourselves at least once. conceding to the bred tolerance to pain, fearlessness, and agressiveness and then doing a 180 to say that they are not bred to fight is an asinine statement. "you have to TEACH them to fight" so...two dogs in the wilderness that have never had an owner or anything want to battle...they must just sit there and talk it through because WE have not taught them to fight. thats pretty arrogant. everything knows how to fight, some just better than others. If i was fearless, tolerant to pain, and agressive i bet i would do better and be far more confident than someone without those qualities.

Yea, I couldn't find anything either.

 

[HarryWhisman]

Every dog, including yorkshire terrier can kill - believe it or not I've seen this.

We're gonna need some little bitty playing cards.

Let's see..would you rather shoot a Yorkie or a pit bu.... oh never mind.

 

[mania]

Yorkshire terrier, as EVERY terrier is a hunter. It hunts rats. And they are really good at this. They kill rats - it was worth watching how he does it.
BTW at the beggining (19th century) york was bigger that it's now.
Mania

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

It's not that pit bulls were breed to be agressive.

Hmm...it would be interesting if that were true, and then you might have a point. Except it isn't true, and so you don't.

From http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html

Pit bulls are tough and intelligent animals, historically bred for a willingness to test their mettle against larger and stronger animals and against each other. It is not uncommon for an adult pit bull to be quarrelsome toward other dogs, and to expect him to be otherwise is unfair to the dog, to yourself and to the community in which you live. Good intentioned but ignorant owners who obtain a pit bull, convinced that the dog's temperament is ultimately influenced by "how you raise them" do tremendous damage to our dogs as well as being grossly unfair to their dog .

They WERE bred to fight. Saying otherwise is simply NOT TRUE.

And mania, I'm sorry, but you do keep derailing your point, trying to debate through distraction, disagreeing with the point and then changing the subject. It is entirely irrelevant whether all dogs came from wolves. It is entirely irrelevant what terriers were bred for.

The point is this (and why you keep arguing against it in the face of such overwhelming evidence is beyond me):

Pit bulls were bred for strength and aggressive tendencies toward other dogs. They have an attitude and a physical ability to attack and seriously hurt or kill other dogs without provocation and without training. They don't need to be taught to be aggressive. It is inherent to their nature to try to harm other dogs. That's what the thread is about.

No one is worried about getting attacked by a terrier while walking their dog...

mania, you seem to want us to agree that all dogs are potentially dangerous, and that pit bulls are no more aggressive in their tendencies than any other dog breed. According to the above quote, that attitude is "good intentioned but ignorant". It is a simple fact that a pit bull is far more likely to attack and harm another dog without reason, provocation or training than other breeds are.

 

[H2Andy]

It is a simple fact that a pit bull is far more likely to attack and harm another dog without reason, provocation or training than other breeds are.

ok, after re-reading this whole thread (pay me, sucker!) i think i agree
with this statement.

but i also agree with Mania than any dog can kill. remember that pomeranian
(10 lbs) that killed that girl a few years back?

and remember those mutts that broke into a woman's house and killed her?

anyway... just because it's NOT a pit bull, you can't just say, oh, it's not bred
to kill, it wont attack a baby, or a person, or a dog.

now... that said... yes... it appears that you have to be more vigilant with dogs
that were bred for various traits of aggressiveness, including not just the
pitbull but other dogs as well (such as, for example, the rottweiler).

but any dog can attack and kill. as Mania says, they are all really wolves,
not even a different species (they are still categorized as a sub-species of
wolf... able and willing to mate)

 

[mania]

Hmm...it would be interesting if that were true, and then you might have a point. Except it isn't true, and so you don't.

From http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html

Well, I can say that this link doesn't show everything. So it's not saying the truth.
So lets start from the beggining. Pit Bull terrier, as a breed (because it is a breed), was a combination of ancient bulldog and terrier. some are discussiong this but few researches done in Europe confirm that this is an origin of pit bull. There are plenty of such combinations (as for instance Welsh terrier is a combination of foxterrier and airedale terrier). So we have to go back to bulldogs. And yes, they were breed to bait as a part of HUNTING big animals such as bears and bulls. NOT OTHER DOGS...

Bulldogs were used for all manner of work, including baiting, fighting, stock work, hunting, and farm dog. Later, dogs described as bulldogs were used to bait bull and bear. They were an agreeable animal, capable of extreme ferociousness but unwavering loyalty and gentleness towards humans. They were an animal-aggressive breed, but were routinely used in pairs to bait animals and hunt,

Pit bulls were bred for strength and aggressive tendencies toward other dogs. They have an attitude and a physical ability to attack and seriously hurt or kill other dogs without provocation and without training. They don't need to be taught to be aggressive. It is inherent to their nature to try to harm other dogs. That's what the thread is about.

Breeding against other dogs came much later - it was half of the 19th century - as you can read in the history of pit bull.

DNA code takes more than 200 years to be developed. This is why you can't say that aggresivness against other dogs is the genetics of pit bull. It is not.

mania, you seem to want us to agree that all dogs are potentially dangerous, and that pit bulls are no more aggressive in their tendencies than any other dog breed.

yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to achieve. taking into account that my dog - bloodhound can be way more aggresinve than his neighbour - pit bull who in fact is scared of my innocent looking dog.
Mania

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

mainia...arguing the case that even the pit bull rescue people won't touch...

Frankly, I find your attitude discouraging. Pit bull owners should aknowledge that their dogs are much more potentially dangerous than other dogs. Your refusal to admit that, coupled with this completely wrong idea that they are no different in their natural tendency toward aggressiveness is what causes problems like the one in the original post. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't change the facts. A pit bull is far more likely than a bloodhound, all else being equal, to display aggressiveness toward other dogs. If you don't think so, you just don't know much about dogs.

mania, don't you think maybe, just MAYBE, a dog with aggressive tendencies toward bears might also be naturally aggressive toward dogs? You'd have to be a lawyer to try to make the case you're making...they're naturally aggressive towards lots of animals but have to be trained to attack dogs? Please...

You're certainly no geneticist...or dog breeder. You don't have to restructure the dogs DNA to breed in traits, and it certainly doesn't take hundreds of years to breed in or out traits. Ask a dog breeder. We're not trying to breed a photosynthetic dog or anything you understand.

I hope you don't own a pit bull, because your attitude in pit bull owners is exactly what causes these problems. You have to admit that your dog IS more aggressive toward other dogs and furthermore that it has the ability to do great harm to other dogs when it becomes aggressive. You then have to act responsibly to manage the greater threat posed by your dog to others' dogs in public places. That is what the pit bull owners in the original post failed to do.

Every responsible pit bull owner I have ever met can admit that. The pit bull rescue foundations can admit that. But you seem to find the idea that all dogs weren't created with the same natural tendencies offensive for some reason. The politically correct dog stance...ignore the statistics, ignore your experiences...pit bulls have no different natural aggressiveness than a Bassett Hound.

If you really think that, then I'm pretty sure you never met a Pit Bull or a Bassett Hound and you're just taking up the cause of devil's advocacy.

In any event, I think I'll go enter my Bassett Hound in the Greyhound race...after all, he is just as likely to run fast as they are if he's been trained to do so, right?