Pit bull coming at me, owner screaming "Vicious NO"

[Cacia]

oh. I can't shut up. Your experiment isn't "anecdotal"???!!!

Oh, and could some Pit Bull fan out there answer my point about "fundamental nature" in the scienctific context? Until you can become familiar with that, we cannot answer my complaint about the dog's biology. The answer, to a large degree, is in his genetics. Some wise person posted earlier that this whole debate is the classic "nature vs nurture". He did not google that!.... he processed. As evidenced by his "Ahhhh...."

Some of you are assuming the puppy is a blank slate. he is not.

 

[H2Andy]

oh. I can't shut up. Your experiment isn't "anecdotal"???!!!

mine? no, of course not. my experiment isn't presented as evidence, so it
can't be anecdotal.

my experiment is a "thought experiment" designed to explore (not prove) a topic.
Einstein used to do these all the time, so it's not some weird thing i'm
making up.

it's not evidence. it's a challenge to think things through. it really can't
prove anything one way or another.

 

[chickdiver]

After reading this entire thread, I can only say that I agree with both sides.

The only "pit bull" I have ever known was an extremely gentle creature- he was big, slobbery, smelly, and more apt to harm a child by accidentally knocking it over than biting (He had a habit of leaning against people). In the course of his life I only ever knew him to bite 2 things- pine trees and volkswagons (don't ask me why). However, I find that in general I don't "trust" this breed of dog, as they are known for aggression, and (like all breeds) that, coupled with poor ownership is a recipe for disaster. Personally, I wouldn't own one (and I have spent my life around dogs, large and small)- regardless of the fact that the one I grew up with was far gentler and less agressive than my (surly, grouchy, half blind, and old) 6lb. miniature dachshund.

 

[Misplaced Priority]

I personally would not have a pit bull. I don't have anything against them, it is just that I don't want the liability. That said though, the owner of the dog, no matter the bread, has ultimate responsibility to keep control of their animal. Thats why I have a miniature dachsund. She can't pull away from me! Ha Ha.

 

[speedhound]

Andy, no one is arguing that jerks can't ruin any dog. No one one is arguing that responsible owners who know how to raise dogs can't raise good Pit Bulls.

Points that people are arguing are:

A Pit Bull is probably (I'm using probably as a compromise) more likely in similar circumstances to become a "bad dog."

When two equally bad dogs attack, the stronger, and bigger a dog is, the more dangerous, especially if the dog in question has unusually powerful jaws.

Jerks who are more likely to raise bad dogs are also more likely to choose a dog, such as a Pit Bull, that scare people (justly or unjustly).

I'd disagree with the first point. I've known good and bad dogs of all sizes ....anyone ever heard of the "terrier syndrome?" - the smaller the person/dog, the bigger the attitude?

Second point - I'd agree, a terrier may take out an ankle, a bigger dog the leg ...both can be equally nasty..but a terrier can jump up, or a person can fall and panic, so the result could be just as nasty.

Third point, some people do buy "tough dogs" to be seen as tough - but all it does is raise the IQ of the people/pooch pack.

I'd like to meet the idiot who let two girls out with a powerful dog, that they couldn't control. The bíg guy to the left is 100lbs and is as nice as pie, but only I hold him when we're out. Let's just say I'm more than 100lbs... but I think I have the higher IQ (a close thing though - Asti is smart.) (fyi, he's an Estrela Mountain Dog)

 

[Cacia]

mine? no, of course not. my experiment isn't presented as evidence, so it
can't be anecdotal.

my experiment is a "thought experiment" designed to explore (not prove) a topic.
Einstein used to do these all the time, so it's not some weird thing i'm
making up.

it's not evidence. it's a challenge to think things through. it really can't
prove anything one way or another.

okay, did it. lets assume you win. so? thats one dog defying his genetic predisposition maybe. now what?

one pooch. one example. not that enlightening. unless I am not "exploring" correctly....


like it was said, this is the classic nature vs nurture debate which has no correct answer according to conventional wisdom in the scientific community.

Walter's "given all thing equal" brings the point home. You can't ignore the biology of the dog's breeding.

 

[Moodiejeff]

After reading this entire thread, I can only say that I agree with both sides.

Believe it or not... I'm there with you.

With all my negative experiences with pits there was a stray (a young one) roaming the streets the other night. I was ready to bring it home when animal control showed up. The LAST thing I wanted was for this dog to be taken by the gang bangers to be used as bait or to be trained to fight.

And I'm going to repeat one thing... I HAVE been attacked and bitten by a Pitbull. I have the scars to prove it.

 

[H2Andy]

okay, did it. lets assume you win. so? thats one dog defying his genetic predisposition maybe. now what?

one pooch. one example. not that enlightening. unless I am not "exploring" correctly....

well... ah.... my point has not changed...

when evaluating the "dangerousness" of a dog, breed is less important
than the quality of ownership that dog has

clearly this is up for debate, and it's not something we are going to settle here

 

[bladephotog]

Personally I'm a DIR dog owner- Lab, black, would work with anyone in the event their dog quite working.

 

[Walter]

when evaluating the "dangerousness" of a dog, breed is less important than the quality of ownership that dog has

Assuming you are correct, for the sake of discussion, the breed often determines the quality of ownership. Macho jerks often want big bad *** dogs. They are more likely to choose a Pit Bull than a Yorkie and are therefore more likely to ruin a Pit Bull than a Yorkie. Even when a Yorkie is ruined, it cannot do the massive damage easily dished out by a Pit Bull with a bad owner. If a vicious Yorkie attacks me, I may get a few minor bites before a crush it under foot. If a vicious Pit Bull attacks me, I'll be hard pressed to stop the damned thing from killing me. Even when we assume breed doesn't matter, it soon becomes evident that breed does make a big difference.