Piston 1st IP adjuments simplified

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Well shoot, @couv! I've read that bulletin a dozen times, and the part about Mk10+ HP seat shims never clicked.
I've done that with a Mk20, but never a Mk10+. I learn something from SB every time I'm on here.

@raftingtigger , you were right! Your HP cap shims were right on the mark! I guess the movement of the HP seat away from its seating position isn't enough to unseal that washer (at least a new one).
 
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Fighting an IP creep and my first step was to carefully inspect the piston knife edge and HP seat (MK10 plus). Didn't have a magnifier so I used the next better thing. My Olympus TG-5 magnifies to 44x. Works like a charm. Both look good, but the creep (25 psi) is still there.
 
@raftingtigger : is it creep or "mush". The MK-10+ is well known for a mushy behavior.....
 
IP stops then slowly (over a minute or so) moves up 20 to 30 psi then stops. It might be party that it hasn't been properly broken in yet.
 
Fighting an IP creep and my first step was to carefully inspect the piston knife edge and HP seat (MK10 plus). Didn't have a magnifier so I used the next better thing. My Olympus TG-5 magnifies to 44x. Works like a charm. Both look good, but the creep (25 psi) is still there.

Tigger, you have the knife edge piston (rather than the rounded) and which seat? Is it the new black seat like the MK25? Either way, if you're going to reuse the seat, do not remove it from the seat carrier unless you make index marks so you can return the seat and carrier to the exact same position. Reason being is so you don't double engrave the seat with overlapping grooves.
 
I was presuming she had the rounded piston and the black Mk 25 seat, since she said 10+.
Maybe take that Olympus and not only check the rounded piston edge (they often have a little pitting which responds to a little Micromesh), but also check that seat a second time. I had a Mk10+ creep problem which turned out to be an imperfection in a completely new seat.
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Cycling the reg with quick small breaths on the second stage a few hundred times, and leaving it pressurized for several days can also help. If you're worried about it creeping to dangerous levels while you're asleep, just pressurize it and turn the tank off. If it pops off the second stage from excessive IP during the night, or there's an ongoing tiny leak, it'll just drain the residual pressure in the hose and you'll see things at some low pressure in the morning.
Finally, don't forget to consider switching out that HP shaft oring. A late creep may be good initial sealing, and then molecules slipping past a flaw as Christolube shifts on a microscopic level.
But the most common fix for me has been spinning the piston on a 5/32" hex key as I let the sealing edge rest on a constantly changing angle of varying grades of Micromesh, from 3600-8000 grit. Get that polished up, while retaining the rounded edge, and it should seal without a creep. (Doing a true knife edge is a bit more of a challenge)
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Unless the problem is a scratch in the oring land for the HP seat, which is unrecoverable, then the creep HAS to be one of those other three.
But as that bulletin that @couv posted shows, the Mark 10+ was the genesis for Rene Dupré's comments at Service seminars thereafter, that all Scubapro regs are allowed 8psi of creep in the first 45 sec. Maybe after some cycling, and matchup between your piston and the new seat, this'll all settle down within spec. It's a frustrating process, rebuilding a reg for the fourth time, as you work through each of the possibilities. Fingers crossed!
 
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Thanks all. It is a rounded edge and the moulded black seat. My terminology is lacking. I'll look at it more when I'm home. Great info. The piston edge looks great with the x44 magnification. I'll post pics when I get home and take it apart again.

Couv, check. Index marks if reusing the seat

Rsingler, check. Leave pressured and cycle.

Also recovered my Reg Saavy book from a friend. Really wanted it recently. Harlow is good, but didn't answer my questions. Since I do this about once every 4 years or so, I have to relearn some of it.
 
Finally, don't forget to consider switching out that HP shaft oring. A late creep may be good initial sealing, and then molecules slipping past a flaw as Christolube shifts on a microscopic level.

Unless the problem is a scratch in the oring land for the HP seat, which is unrecoverable, then the creep HAS to be one of those other three.

That part doesn't make sense to me as a cause up UPWARD IP creep. Unless I'm missing something ALL the o-rings in the MK10 (or Plus) have HP or IP pressure on one side and ambient on the other. HP can only influence IP at the piston/HP seat interface.

Just so my reasoning is clear, starting at the o-ring on the HP carrier seat (HP/ambient, leak visible as bubbles at the seat carrier screws); HP seat o-ring on the MK10+ (HP/ambient, leak visible as bubbles from the little seat removal hole); Piston shaft o-ring (HP/ambient, leak visible as bubbles from the ambient chamber); HP Piston (IP/ambient, leak visible as bubbles from the ambient chamber); turret o-ring (IP/ambient, leaks visible at the turret join); Ports (IP/ambient, leaks visible at the port). Again, my terminology might vary.
 
Good for you, Cheryl. I stand corrected once more about the result of a HP shaft o-ring leak. That one will NOT result in IP creep, but will in fact leak air at the ambient holes. I lumped piston problems together without thinking it through for you.
So as we go back to your original post, we have only one possible source of IP creep: an inadequate seal at the seat/knife edge interface. A hair? Dust/grit? A scratch in the seat? Pitting at the rounded knife edge? It's either the seat or the knife edge.

You've got this theory down! Each of your other leak traces sounds right to me.
 
Testing 2 different MK10+. Both IPs rapidly rise to between 120 and 130 then slowly (over the space of 10-30 min) rise to 145-155 and then appear to stay there. Both seem to breath (surface) fine. The one that I have taken the seat carrier back off and looked at both the seat and piston edge look FANTASTIC at x44 magnification. I'm tempted to call it a day and leave them as is. Am I being stupid? BTW the other looked great at normal size when I installed it.

Addendum on stupid: I am always diving 2 separate 1st stages now (sidemount). So the only risk I see is if I have a 1st stage induced freeflow is to shut down the affected tank valve. If I need the gas (I won't, rec only) I can breath off that tank by feathering. Again if I thought the 1st stage would fail I wouldn't dive it even with the above.
 
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