Phoenix HPR Royal second stage

[Luis H]

But I think the friction you described with the washer is significant,

SeaRat

Well, I hope you don’t mind, but the way I look at it, I rather stick to published engineering data (for coefficient of friction, etc.), actual calculations, and actual measurements, rather than what “someone thinks”…

Personally, I consider this and engineered design, not just a trial and error product just put together by someone tinkering around.

Don’t get me wrong, there are many excellent products that have been the result of trial and error… and many good designs have been just the result of good luck… that is just not my style…

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Luis, no offence at all. Realize I was talking about the friction on the DA Aquamaster/Royal Aquamaster, and not your design. I work in an applied health science (industrial hygiene), so I understand your discussion on actual friction numbers. I too like engineered designs. But I also "tinker" with my double hose rigs, so sometimes it is difficult to discuss things without getting into my "tinkering" mode. Also, I am not an engineer.

I recently had to do some AutoCAD drawings for a premit, and virtually had to learn some AutoCAD on my own to get them done. When I did I placed a disclaimer on the drawing stating that I was not an engineer, nor am I AutoCAD qualified, and that the drawing was not to scale, but was required by the governmental agency I was working with (and, there were no CAD engineers available to use in the time frame I needed).

Your Phoenix second stage is an impressive engineering design. I'm actually trying to highlight that aspect, and point out advantages. I have seen poor implimentations of designs, and what they can do to what should be a good regulator (the Dacor R-4 is an example). Best wishes with this design.

John (SeaRat)

 

[Ed Palma]

Oh, and just in case anyone missed an important point:

HPR 2nd stages available already!

 

[Luis H]

Here are some pictures of a new assembly next to a prototype.
The units are assembled before installation.

Installing the unit only requires screwing it in, making sure the venturi holes line up with the horn and locking the unit in place with the plastic washers and the screws on the side.


Here I am removing the prototype assemble. Notice that I lift the lever to retract the seat. This saves the seat from being cut by the volcano orifice. This is an important step when installing or removing the assembly.

Here are two methods of adjusting the lever height.


The first method uses the same special tool used to adjust many Aqua Lung single hose second stages. As mentioned before, Herman is making a functionally identical tool for a very reasonable price.


The second method just uses a small flat blade screw drive to hold the seat carrier from turning and a 1/4” open end wrench to adjust the nylon-lock-nut.


Either method works. It is more of a personal preference.

Once the lever height is adjusted, you should never need to adjust it again unless you disassemble the unit. You can replace the soft seat without affection the lever height adjustment.
This unit is not sensitive to precise lever heights. The minute height change from installing a new seat is totally insignificant with this unit. You actually should adjusted with a small gap between the lever and the diaphragm (there is no need for the precise adjustments needed in a single hose second stage).


When it comes to normal servicing of the second stage all you have to do is the following (this assumes there is not excessive corrosion or any foreign matter):
• Remove the unit.
• Remove the seat.
• Soak the entire assembly in vinegar for just a few minutes.
• Rinse with lots of fresh water while moving the lever to make sure all surfaces are rinsed.
• Dry with clean compressed air.
• Install new seat.
• Re-install unit on regulator.
• Check lever height.
• Check everything on regulator is functioning properly.
• Go diving.


If it is necessary to disassemble the unit due to excessive corrosion, etc., the process is very easy and basically intuitive. The only item to notice is that the two washers are installed in the correct location and that the smooth rounded edge surface of both washers are facing the feet of the lever.








This picture is just of part of my regulator work (the rest is more of a mess). If you notice the clear tube is one of the places where I measure inhalation suction (I also measure it at the mouthpiece with a different set up). I use this set up to remove the variables introduced by the hose loop.


Very important to notice that there is a mouthpiece with a check valve that is open to ambient. This works to vent excess air flow when I am adjusting the venturi effect. This is very important to protect from over pressurization injuries.


You may also notice the IP gauge reads 130 psi. The regulator is mounted on the test bench outlet. The scuba tank air source is to the left of the bench.

 

[Gilldiver]

Luis, do you glue in the 2nd stage seat or just let it float?

 

[Luis H]

The seat should be a tight fit. If it was loose, I would glue it, but I just avoid using undersized seats.
I just make sure the seat fits tight and I don’t glue them.

The new blue seats that Bryan is including with the Phoenix HPR fit tight in the seat holders (many of the others seats do too).

 

[Couv]

Luis,

My wife thinks you're a handsome man, but I think a nice photo of the HPR would make a very suitable avatar.

c

 

[Luis H]

Thanks Couv,
But I kind of like my avatar. The two pictures were taken over 35 years apart. I am using the same regulator and snorkel in both. The Fenzy and the Jet fins are not the same ones, but they are the same model.

I am very pleased with the HPR, but it is not really a work of art… IMHO, it is not really a break through item that could become an icon.

The design is actually very simple (and that is a big part of its beauty). It just incorporates many of the lessons learned and used in single hose regulators (where there is no mechanical advantage from a large diaphragm). The beauty is in the details.


BTW, talking about avatars, I am glad you went back to the Aqualung avatar. I always liked that album and I know it has nothing to do with diving, but in my mind it does… it takes me back to the early 70’s… actually 1971 is when the album was released and when I started diving… so there is a connection.



---------- Post added April 22nd, 2012 at 11:07 AM ----------



I have been doing some testing with the two stage diaphragm with the metal disc, in combination with the new production parts, and what I have tested so far works well. It actually breathes extremely well… maybe a bit too good (I know this sounds odd). Just be aware of the higher potential for some minor free flow (more like some bubbling).

The potential for some bubbling will be again more likely when the exhaust is above the diaphragm… like when you are on your back looking at he surface.

If you decide to try the metal plate diaphragm, make sure the tabs do no interfere with anything. You can either line them up on the sides of the new lever, or better yet bend them flat.

For most divers I still think that the single stage diaphragm is probably a better choice. It will provide an excellent breathing regulator with superb reliability. The metal disc diaphragm pushes the performance closer to the edge.

I personally like pushing the edge, but I will recommend against it for those who dive in near freezing water temperatures. These regulators (actually most double hose regulator) are very robust against freezing free flows, but there is no point on pushing the limit.



The venturi effect on the production units is also extremely good. It actually is a bit better than the prototype. In the unit I am testing there is really no need to block the bleed air port in order to get close to maximum venturi effect. I can actually only partially block one of the two bleed holes before the venturi becomes too powerful.

You can tell the venturi effect is too powerful when you take a medium to deep breath and more air goes out the exhaust than you are inhaling. Actually, it is too powerful if any air is wasted out the exhaust while you are inhaling no matter how hard you breathe.

It is not recommended to tune the venturi effect too close to the edge. There are too many variables that will affect the venturi and it can make it somewhat unpredictable.

 

[Gilldiver]

Here is the man himself - but not double hosing it as you can see.

---------- Post added April 22nd, 2012 at 04:47 PM ----------

I am very pleased with the HPR, but it is not really a work of art… IMHO, it is not really a break through item that could become an icon.

The design is actually very simple (and that is a big part of its beauty). It just incorporates many of the lessons learned and used in single hose regulators (where there is no mechanical advantage from a large diaphragm). The beauty is in the details.

Louis, while I believe what you say, you are being too modest. What you have created is a system of new applications of some basic principles that I have seen in other machines. Therefore, I encourage you to apply for a patent and make sure that you include the washer system that allows for venturi adjustment, that I have not seen before.

Pete

 

[Ed Palma]

Here is the man himself - but not double hosing it as you can see. Pete

Not double-hosing... but that's one heck of a loooooong-hose right there

Louis, while I believe what you say, you are being too modest. What you have created is a system of new applications of some basic principles that I have seen in other machines. Therefore, I encourage you to apply for a patent and make sure that you include the washer system that allows for venturi adjustment, that I have not seen before.

Pete

I'll have to agree with Pete right here regarding a patent application. Its an elegantly simple yet effective design, and you should be recognized for that effort.