Perdix's AI, what they got right, what could be better

[Chicken SCUBA]

Does the download software allow for entry of cylinder size/working pressure and calculate RMV, or is this a manual calculation from SAC?

BLUF: No.

There are places you can put your gear info as notes but there is no drop-down for tank size or auto conversion to RMV. They were nice enough to put the formula for RMV conversion in the manual for the Perdix though.

 

[KaptaniDerya]

@Chicken SCUBA

I have been a long time user of Suunto Vyper Air. Finally I got tired of seeing my dive buddies computers much more easier than looking at mine during night dives or deep dark dives.

Also I am a side mount diver as well. Waited for Suunto to bring in sidemount features to Eon Steel but Shearwater beat them.

Shearwater's willingness to listen to their customers and change/update their features via firmware has won me over.

 

[Francis Ament]

@Chicken SCUBA

I was trying to focus on the AI aspects of a EON vs Shearwater not the whole package but sense you brought it up, I did really enjoy the way Suunto displayed information. I also like that there wasn't a completely different display style for Tec vs Rec. I do like choices but Shearwater's Rec limits you on some things and Tec doesn't have safety stops that I can find but most of all the display style is totally different from one to the other. I'm sure most folks pick one and stick with it. I know I will. Suunto I think did a great job of making a display system that gives you what you need when you need it without making you feel like you need totally different info for one dive vs another.

There are some other things Suunto never did right besides the no nicknames on tanks though. I know that ideally you and your dive buddies should all be using the same gasses but that isn't realistic down to the .01 with different fill stations ext... So Shearwater lets you add your friends gas(es) but turn them off unless you need to share them. You can even adjust a gas mid dive if you need to. Suunto will drive you crazy if you add your friends gas and you dam well get them set right before your in the water. It won't let you mess with the settings even on the surface if it's wet.

I love that EON's timer is available anytime from any screen but it is easy to forget how to stop/start/reset it sense there is no prompt. Shearwater made sure you will know how to start and stop it but to have it available you have to take up one of your precious "user definable" positions on the screen. At least I haven't found another way to start the timer.

EON's compass is still the best I've seen. But Shearwater is a close second.

I never liked the "long press" to enter menus (go forward) but anywhere in the menus "long press" is to go back. That is counter intuitive. Shearwater's two button system is the winner here.

Tones. Shearwater doesn't have them. I thought I was indifferent to them so I never turned them off. Turns out that I hate them. Thanks Shearwater for teaching me that I hate tones.

Did I miss any?
Chickens

While looking around for comments on the EON, I came across your post and found it as an excellent source of info... as I'm on the fence about getting the EON. I'm a new diver and want to start purchasing my gear, but wanted to start off with a computer first that is easy to read [ I'm getting old ] and manage. Since I'll only be perusing the recreational side of diving, the EON sounds like it'll more than suit my purpose. I will acquire other gear later, but I'll be renting when I go down south for now. Sorry to side-track on this thread, but any opinions would be grateful.

 

[rongoodman]

AI aside, if you buy the Shearwater you will have a choice of known, publicly available, decompression algorithms. With the EON, you're buying into Suunto's proprietary model, which is liable to lock you out if it's not happy, converting your computer into a very expensive bottom timer.

 

[Chicken SCUBA]

Francis Ament,

I don't personally buy into the "propitary" or "lockout" issues with Suunto. All algorithms are messed with in some way that has taken them far away from the pure version and that is a good thing. Lockout only happens if you do something so dumb that the computer no longer knows what to tell you. You either need to know what to do next with a chart (Suunto style) or you need to 1 know that you messed up and 2 know how to modify you dive acordingly (Shearwater style).

Potato / potato I say. My opinion is that the Suunto Eon has the best display around. The quick switch to change the central item is the poo. That central item can be your air or your deco/no-deco time or your compass ext... However it never compromises having the data you need to stay safe. The compass is the best ever. Shear water is a close second mind you.

Unless you are going tech or sidemount, there is no solid reason to chose one over the other. If you like the look of the Eon like I did, go for it. I like that Eon has the same display for Tech and Rec also. Both are super easy to read. Your choosing between user replaceable battery and lithium rechargeable. The Searwater has a greater depth rating and better customer service especially since the Suunto / aqualung breakup in the beginning of 2016. Eon uses a cord and shearwater uses Bluetooth. Eon can have 10 transmitters but you can only see one at a time. Shearwater can only have 2 but shows both at the same time.

Bottom line is they both have ups and downs. If your sure you will never go Tech go for Eon.

 

[AJ]

I don't personally buy into the "propitary" or "lockout" issues with Suunto. All algorithms are messed with in some way that has taken them far away from the pure version and that is a good thing. Lockout only happens if you do something so dumb that the computer no longer knows what to tell you. You either need to know what to do next with a chart (Suunto style) or you need to 1 know that you messed up and 2 know how to modify you dive acordingly (Shearwater style).

Well, my Suunto locked me out for no good reason. My buddys PDC's did not have any problem with our divng profiles, nor did my Shearwater. The Suunto did and I never figured out why.

It may have had it's (unknown) reasons, but I don't want my computer to lock me out. Period! My Shearwater will warn me when I do stupid things, but lets me decide what to do based on my understanding of diving. That's how I want a PDC to behave. No Suunto for me anymore.

 

[Chicken SCUBA]

AJ,

I'm just shooting in the dark without lots more info but if I understood you correctly you were diving with a shearwater and had your Suunto for backup? I do that some times but I always put it in gauge mode because I know that the Suunto will require a much deeper initial stop.

I would wager that you would not have locked it out if it had been your primary unit. (Big caveat that I made a large number of assumptions in this armchair quarterbacking)

My main point is that I don't think everyone understands what it means to "never lock out". I think that many people believe that you can blow a stop or two and the shearwater algorithm/computer will make adjustments to your profile to get you safely to the surface. That is simply not true. If you ever fail to follow your profile completely your taking your life into your own hands. Your outside the understood decompression profiles and if your not in a potentially life threatening situation that is forcing you to do that, then your acting foolish.

The knowledge that you must follow what your computer says or it will lock out and leave you hanging will 1 strongly encourage following it and 2 encourage bringing a written profile as a backup. Both are good things.

Mind you I did switch and I will and do recommend Shearwater to all my up comming Tec diver acquaintances.

 

[AJ]

Ah, there's a difference in thinking. I trust my computer, but I don't rely on it to get me home safe. I plan my dive and dive my plan. It's exactly why I don't like Suunto anymore. I don't understand what limits it is using or how it makes decisions. I want a computer to help and advise me, not to tell me what (not) to do. Therefore I don't like my computer to lock me out.

Learning about deco theory is to me the same as learning how to drive a car. You have to learn the rules first to be a safe driver. It's not enough to just be able to handle the car itself. If you don't want to learn about deco theory find another hobby, diving is not for you. Based on this way of thinking I disagree with your statement that 'you must follow your computer'. I think it's better to understand decompression theory and act accordingly with help from your computer/BT. It makes you a better and safer diver.

BTW, a few months later my Suunto died because of a faulty depth sensor. Maybe it had something to do with it's behaviour, but anyhow: no more Suunto for me.

 

[Chicken SCUBA]

AJ,

Suunto is of course famous for there pressure sensor failures. Certain models we're especially prone. Though I personally have owned 4 models over the last 12 years, all of which still work today.

Of course I agree that one should dive a plan but I don't fully agree with the thinking that diving a table makes you safer for the simple reason that it assumes (unless you adjust your software on the few softwares that can) that you will ascend at 30 or 33 ft but I don't know anyone who does.

As an example of my point, I did a training dive to 140 for 13. I started my ascent on time and was showing 10 minutes to surface (as planned). It was a shore dive with lowish vis so I followed the contour of the bottom/wall. My ascent was too slow and I racked up an extra 4 minutes by the time I reached my deep stop. If I had followed my plan only I would not have realized that I had on gassed so much during my slow ascent.

Now I realize that you and any reasonable person will always follow the most conservative direction. My point is simply that people suck at sticking to the plan especially when it comes to ascent rate and comming up slower is not more conservative because you will continue to on gas. My conclusion is that you should dive your computer for the most conservatism and use a chart (preferably slightly deeper and longer than actual) as a backup. Deeper and longer so that errors on ascent should be managed by the longer hang(s) at the shallow stop(s).

So bottom line is you are correct. I do believe in following my computer.

 

[AJ]

We do agree. The thing I don't like is blind trust in a computer, based on 25 years of professinal experience with computers. For instance, the Tesla cars are able to drive themselves. Great as long as everything goes to plan. But what if something does not go to plan and the computer is'nt told about that specific deviaton of the plan? That's why I'am saying: trust your computer, but don't rely on it. Ultimately your responsible for your safety and you have to decide what's right, not the computer or it's maker.

I do however follow my computer just as you do. I'am using it as a trusted advisor. Not my boss that's telling me what to do. That's the key difference between a thinking diver and a non thinking diver I guess.