Perdix's AI, what they got right, what could be better

[Chicken SCUBA]

I'll mostly be using Suunto and more specifically the EON Steel so I would love to hear from anyone with experience with other computers in this class.

A little back story, I started sidemount diving a couple years ago and around that time my Suunto D9 (original form 2004) was starting so have issue with the AI. I'm getting older as we all do and I was already considering that I need a bigger screen and I was looking at possibly starting Tec courses. All that considered I saw two choices Shearwater and Eon Steel. In the end I wasn't ready to give up AI despite all the Tec and DIR nay sayers.

So what made me trade in for a Perdix AI. One word, Sidemount. The only thing that drives me nuts on the Eon is that even though it can link to 10 transmitters you can only see one at a time. The need to switch gas from one .21 to another every time I really switch tanks so the AI is recording my real RMV wouldn't be a big deal if it was easier to know what tank is what. Suunto didn't let you nick name the tanks in anyway either so it can get confusing. Not an issue of all your tanks are different gasses.

The thing that Shearwater did right first and for most is showing both tanks at the same time. You don't need to nick name them because you just set them up as T1 on the left tank's reg and T2 on the right. Another thing they did right is they separated the gasses from the tanks. In the Eon one gas really means one tank. You could have 10 .21 tanks filling up your gasses because each one is associated with a transmitter. This helps with SAC/RMV but it isn't necessary. The Shearwater's 5 gasses are just EAN's and the tank pressures are just the tank pressures. No need to stop recording/displaying the pressure just because you switched to a deco bottle. I know I'm not breathing tank 1 or 2. It doesn't need to stop displaying the pressure like the EON does.

So what don't I like so much. (see opps below) First is simple, only tank 1 displays in Desktop even if I only use tank 2. When I want to dive single tank sidemount I switch which first stage I use depending on whether I'm using my left or right tank so when I dove my right tank I was in tank 2 only. To make this work so I can see it later I either need to swap my transmitter or swap the transmitter number in the T1/T2 positions. That isn't KISS. (See opps below) Next they don't even have a SAC graph on desktop or in the comoputer's log display. IMO the best and most useful info is missing. My most recent dive for example, I had a nice calm dive for the fist half of my tank, then a rapid swim, then my safety stop and last a rough surf fin removal. I currently only know what my average SAC was. If I was using the Eon I could know how long it took to settle in from drop in, what my calm SAC was, what my swimming SAC was and what my rough exit SAC was. The only other complaint is that I love the mini display for the center row but I don't need or want the GTR in there however if I turn it off, it is also off for the bottom row display. I still want it there.

I guess I do have one more suggestion that isn't AI. I would like to have the option to start the timer even if it isn't selected as a center row item and have it take over a center position of my choosing while on.

I'd like to hear other peoples thoughts on Shearwater's AI especially if they have seen other styles from other units that have features that are better practices. But please let's keep the "Shearwater should have never done AI" comments for a more appropriate thread.

Chicken

 

[Diving Dubai]

@Chicken SCUBA

I'll be watching this thread with interest.

Regarding your comment on the Eon, I couldn't agree more. It's something I've communicated to Suunto (and had some feedback from the program team) but we need to wait and see for the future. My work around (obviously no good for sidemount) was to tell the computer I had different mixes. If my main and my pony had 32%, I'd put my pony gas as 31%. If you made it say 33 the computer would always bitch to gas swap to a better mix, however when it's set to a leaner mix the Eon always defaults to it when it comes out of sleep mode.

Regarding graphs displays. I use the Mac Dive desktop, I needed to send them my data logs so they could examine the data outputs and get them displayed in Mac dive (along with gas changes etc).

I'm not ready to jump ship on the Eon yet - I do like the graphics - just like and SPG you only need to register the clock position of the bar rather than the actual number, and so far it's never let me down, and even on deco not hindered me. However if the Perdix improves and the Eon doesn't get an update I may well do.

I'm sure teh other manufacturers have ignored SW because they didn't have AI - thus a different market segment, however now they do it will be interesting to see how the other manufacturers respond.................

 

[Scared Silly]

That is some very good user feedback that I am sure Shearwater will look at. That said what I like about some computers today that allow for firmware updates as well as being able to personalize the display.

 

[DMDavid]

Well so far I have no major suggestions for the new Shearwater Perdix AI other than I wish there was a way to toggle between the two tanks without going through the main menu (this may just be me not knowing all the ins and outs yet).
Would also like to see a simpler strap system kind of like the wrist mount for Sola lights.

Over all I am extremely satisfied with my upgrade from the regular Perdix to the new Perdix AI.

 

[Kevrumbo]

For Tech Open Circuit training & novice tech divers, some preferred practical GTR functionality & info examples for an initial user entered Minimim Gas Reserve/Rock Bottom pressure value:

• Based on this Minimum Gas Reserve, for overhead cave/wreck diving, the GTR utility would also user prompt, calculate & display, a time remaining or countdown to Modified Third's (or Sixth's or "1/n") Turn Pressure. (Stage bottle Modified Third's support -i.e. Half plus 15 bar AL80 Stage cylinder(s)- would be useful, but requires more transmitters to monitor each stage cylinder used, or in lieu of additional transmitters, a user entered value for the number of stages used and each of their volume "tank factor" capacities.)
• A calculation & prompted display of time remaining or countdown to perform an emergency Lost Buddy Search based on one-half the above Modified Turn Pressure calculation.
• A tank switch reminder/indicator based on user entered delta pressure value for doubles sidemount diving.

IMO, these are useful & vital GTR features to have for open circuit Tech/Overhead Diving, and easy algorithms to develop and implement for the next generation wireless AI product model. The only difficulty would be how to display this info on one screen without too much button pushing menu navigation. @stuartv, Perhaps a heads up display like the Shearwater NERD for critical dive computer deco info and remaining bottom gas pressure monitoring, and an optional wrist mounted screen for all the other ancillary data as needed --but along with additional transmitters, this would quickly become a very complex and expensive solution.

 

[Diving Dubai]

One of my favourite things on the Eon is the multiple screens that are user configurable. Now I know the Perdix displays thing differently but here me out.

My 1st screen is my NDL/Stop screen. By that I mean that the primary data in the centre. Obviously is shows depth, and dive time, I also have one of the user window showing gas contents, and another (which can be scrolled through) Stuff like Max depth, dive time and a few other items. This is the screen I normally end the dive on, and so I have the info that will be requested post dive on that screen

My 2nd screen is my air (primary data) This shows Depth and NDL, as well as Gas mix. I also have things like CNS, OTU, SAC, GTR etc etc here.

My 3rd has compass as primary info with dive time, NDL gas contents other stuff

My 4th Timer as Primary Info with dive time, NDL/ Deco, gas contents TTS and other stuff.

My point being is that at different points of the dive, I prefer my screen to show data in a different way - and it's customisable by me for what I want and where. 1 button changes the screen. Important data obviously is on every screen. This allows me to have data important to me, without compromising "real estate"

Obviously the way I want my computer set up, is different from someone else. I don't know how configurable the Perdix is (yet)

Personally I find the multi screen approach useful as long as the user has choices. I don't lkie multi screens that you are forced to scroll through just to see certain data because it's not where you would like it

 

[Chris Hunger]

Would also like to see a simpler strap system kind of like the wrist mount for Sola lights.

Just make your own adjustable bungees. Then throw one over your wrist and the other one over 2or so fingers. Done

 

[Chicken SCUBA]

First is simple, only tank 1 displays in Desktop even if I only use tank 2. When I want to dive single tank sidemount I switch which first stage I use depending on whether I'm using my left or right tank so when I dove my right tank I was in tank 2 only. To make this work so I can see it later I either need to swap my transmitter or swap the transmitter number in the T1/T2 positions. That isn't KISS.

Opps! So there is a Tank 2 after all. My task-bar being on the side of the screen and some poor resizing support from desktop made it impossible to see. I've bumped that issue to Shearwater for a future fix hopefully. But less some "technical difficulties" you can scratch the above section of the original post. Both tanks display on desktop.

 

[scubadada]

I'll mostly be using Suunto and more specifically the EON Steel so I would love to hear from anyone with experience with other computers in this class.

A little back story, I started sidemount diving a couple years ago and around that time my Suunto D9 (original form 2004) was starting so have issue with the AI. I'm getting older as we all do and I was already considering that I need a bigger screen and I was looking at possibly starting Tec courses. All that considered I saw two choices Shearwater and Eon Steel. In the end I wasn't ready to give up AI despite all the Tec and DIR nay sayers.

So what made me trade in for a Perdix AI. One word, Sidemount. The only thing that drives me nuts on the Eon is that even though it can link to 10 transmitters you can only see one at a time. The need to switch gas from one .21 to another every time I really switch tanks so the AI is recording my real RMV wouldn't be a big deal if it was easier to know what tank is what. Suunto didn't let you nick name the tanks in anyway either so it can get confusing. Not an issue of all your tanks are different gasses.

The thing that Shearwater did right first and for most is showing both tanks at the same time. You don't need to nick name them because you just set them up as T1 on the left tank's reg and T2 on the right. Another thing they did right is they separated the gasses from the tanks. In the Eon one gas really means one tank. You could have 10 .21 tanks filling up your gasses because each one is associated with a transmitter. This helps with SAC/RMV but it isn't necessary. The Shearwater's 5 gasses are just EAN's and the tank pressures are just the tank pressures. No need to stop recording/displaying the pressure just because you switched to a deco bottle. I know I'm not breathing tank 1 or 2. It doesn't need to stop displaying the pressure like the EON does.

So what don't I like so much. (see opps below) First is simple, only tank 1 displays in Desktop even if I only use tank 2. When I want to dive single tank sidemount I switch which first stage I use depending on whether I'm using my left or right tank so when I dove my right tank I was in tank 2 only. To make this work so I can see it later I either need to swap my transmitter or swap the transmitter number in the T1/T2 positions. That isn't KISS. (See opps below) Next they don't even have a SAC graph on desktop or in the comoputer's log display. IMO the best and most useful info is missing. My most recent dive for example, I had a nice calm dive for the fist half of my tank, then a rapid swim, then my safety stop and last a rough surf fin removal. I currently only know what my average SAC was. If I was using the Eon I could know how long it took to settle in from drop in, what my calm SAC was, what my swimming SAC was and what my rough exit SAC was. The only other complaint is that I love the mini display for the center row but I don't need or want the GTR in there however if I turn it off, it is also off for the bottom row display. I still want it there.

I guess I do have one more suggestion that isn't AI. I would like to have the option to start the timer even if it isn't selected as a center row item and have it take over a center position of my choosing while on.

I'd like to hear other peoples thoughts on Shearwater's AI especially if they have seen other styles from other units that have features that are better practices. But please let's keep the "Shearwater should have never done AI" comments for a more appropriate thread.

Chicken

Does the download software allow for entry of cylinder size/working pressure and calculate RMV, or is this a manual calculation from SAC?

 

[Chicken SCUBA]

One of my favorite things on the Eon is the multiple screens that are user configurable.

I was trying to focus on the AI aspects of a EON vs Shearwater not the whole package but sense you brought it up, I did really enjoy the way Suunto displayed information. I also like that there wasn't a completely different display style for Tec vs Rec. I do like choices but Shearwater's Rec limits you on some things and Tec doesn't have safety stops that I can find but most of all the display style is totally different from one to the other. I'm sure most folks pick one and stick with it. I know I will. Suunto I think did a great job of making a display system that gives you what you need when you need it without making you feel like you need totally different info for one dive vs another.

There are some other things Suunto never did right besides the no nicknames on tanks though. I know that ideally you and your dive buddies should all be using the same gasses but that isn't realistic down to the .01 with different fill stations ext... So Shearwater lets you add your friends gas(es) but turn them off unless you need to share them. You can even adjust a gas mid dive if you need to. Suunto will drive you crazy if you add your friends gas and you dam well get them set right before your in the water. It won't let you mess with the settings even on the surface if it's wet.

I love that EON's timer is available anytime from any screen but it is easy to forget how to stop/start/reset it sense there is no prompt. Shearwater made sure you will know how to start and stop it but to have it available you have to take up one of your precious "user definable" positions on the screen. At least I haven't found another way to start the timer.

EON's compass is still the best I've seen. But Shearwater is a close second.

I never liked the "long press" to enter menus (go forward) but anywhere in the menus "long press" is to go back. That is counter intuitive. Shearwater's two button system is the winner here.

Tones. Shearwater doesn't have them. I thought I was indifferent to them so I never turned them off. Turns out that I hate them. Thanks Shearwater for teaching me that I hate tones.

Did I miss any?
Chickens