Peacock Fatality Accident Analysis

[ucfdiver]

Apparently, someone who wasn't a cave instructor taught John this circuit and told him it was okay to do visual jumps there.

Someone who WAS a cave instructor taught Bruce, who died at Ginnie doing visual jumps.

Maybe training is the problem here?

(I'm being sarcastic, but you see the flaw in logic here)

 

[Dive-aholic]

Was this really apparent? Do we know any of this paragraph to be true? Or is it just more speculation and another fork in the road that will allow more assumption and conjecture for the next 5, 10 or 20 pages on this forum.

Guys, quit guessing. Your speculation, assumptions and conjecture don't serve any good purpose here. Stick to the facts. We don't learn from the myths, unproven guesses, etc. I'll bet a flashlight no one "taught" john this circuit and told him it was ok to do visual jumps.

It's been posted more than once that someone took John on that same route the week before.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that reasoning. I spent a full day or so working with a reel during the cavern portion of my class. It was drilled into me how important that was because you must always maintain a continuous guideline to the surface.

If someone is taught this and then discards that information because someone else told them it was okay not to maintain a continuous guideline then I think that responsibility rests squarely on their own shoulders. Unless this other person held a gun to their head and made them do it, they should have told him "Screw off, I know better than that."

John was also only Intro. In his cavern and intro courses he was likely taught that a primary reel is necessary to maintain a continuous guideline to the surface. Do we know whether jumps were ever talked about? I know I talk to my cavern and intro students about jumps. However, if this was never talked about in John's classes, then it is very possible that whoever took him on that dive the week before told him visual jumps are okay and that everyone does them. The continuous guideline rule is just for the cavern. In this case, he really wouldn't know better.

 

[Superlyte27]

You guys are funny.

Ok, I'm out, have fun.

 

[Cave Diver]

John was also only Intro. In his cavern and intro courses he was likely taught that a primary reel is necessary to maintain a continuous guideline to the surface. Do we know whether jumps were ever talked about? I know I talk to my cavern and intro students about jumps. However, if this was never talked about in John's classes, then it is very possible that whoever took him on that dive the week before told him visual jumps are okay and that everyone does them. The continuous guideline rule is just for the cavern. In this case, he really wouldn't know better.

I can see your point, but I don't necessarily fully agree with it. Jumps weren't talked about in my cavern class either, but the idea of always having a continuous guideline was still enforced.

At some point when people get to this level of diving and start to receive information that is contradictory to their training, the responsibility to evaluate the wisdom of that information falls on them. New divers don't know what they don't know, but IMO, technical divers should know enough to start asking questions to fill in those blanks about what they don't know.

To spin things in a completely different direction a thought just occurred to me while reading this:

As I understand it, Florida has a law that someone can be tried for attempted manslaughter if they remove safety items (deco bottles, primary reel) from a cave. If this is accurate, could such a law be applied to someone teaching another person to things such as visual jumps? Or at least reckless endangerment?

 

[TSandM]

technical divers should know enough to start asking questions to fill in those blanks about what they don't know.

This is a good point, CD. I think we can all forgive new divers for getting led into difficult situations, when they simply don't have the information, experience, or training to know better. But by the time you get to technical or cave diving, you should know enough to be able to think, and classes you take should enhance that. We are ALL responsible for our own dive, but at the tech/cave level, even more so.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I can see your point, but I don't necessarily fully agree with it. Jumps weren't talked about in my cavern class either, but the idea of always having a continuous guideline was still enforced.

At some point when people get to this level of diving and start to receive information that is contradictory to their training, the responsibility to evaluate the wisdom of that information falls on them. New divers don't know what they don't know, but IMO, technical divers should know enough to start asking questions to fill in those blanks about what they don't know.

But were they really technical divers?

 

[ucfdiver]

As I understand it, Florida has a law that someone can be tried for attempted manslaughter if they remove safety items (deco bottles, primary reel) from a cave. If this is accurate, could such a law be applied to someone teaching another person to things such as visual jumps? Or at least reckless endangerment?

I hope not. If visual jumps are illegal, what happens when someone takes a person in a dangerous cave? I'd feel MUCH safer visualing hill400 in Ginnie than diving Royal Springs by the book.