Paypal and Ebay suck

[rajambarnett]

Never posted, here goes. Appreciate the advice I have received thus far. Before I was aware of the best gear by reading this site, I had decided on Mares Abyss reg and octo. Bought it through Ebay from a seller with no feedback. Dumb, dumb, I know. However, trust people a little too much I guess. Anyway, my reg and octo come in, warranty cards and all, but the gear is 2000 model. I've been PADI for 12 years, but just now buying my gear (yes, I'm purely rec diver). I wanted to return the gear, concerned about its shelflife---the seller wouldn't allow me to. To make a long story short, Paypal has an incredible policy that I will try my best to make everyone aware of. And I know that there is a lot of discussion about online purhases here, so I do believe that this is relevant. Paypal "does not investigate the attributes or quality of products traded for money"; this was their response to my complaint about my purchase. And most importantly, as of 1/1/03, NO credit card company can reverse charges to paypal because they are considered a third party biller. So, don't think that you're going to be covered just because you use your credit card---it's just like sending cash, you have absolutely no recourse. Bottom Line:

1) Don't use Paypal for any purchases. If you buy online, only buy from stores that don't use third party billers.
2) I highly recommend Rex Dive Center in CT; great people, all new/warrantied gear (auth retailers), very knowledgeable and courteous even before they knew they were getting the sale. I finally bought all of my gear through them.
3) Should I be concerned about these Abyss regs, considering their production date?
4) I went ahead and bought new regs anyway, after reading countless threads on here about whats best. Thanks.

My final setup:

Scubapro Mk25/S600
Scubapro R380
Mares Dragonfly Airtrim BCD
Suunto Cobra with compass/QD
Aqualung Tyke Mask
Mares Volo fins
Henderson Goldcore 5mm 2piece suit, gloves, boots
Spare Air
EMT snips
Oceanmaster BFK (titanium)
Spyderco rescue knife backup\
Mares Abyss reg and Abyss octo backup

 

[King Kong Matt]

It doesn't sound, from the way you describe the situation, that EBay or PayPal screwed you. PayPal forwarded your money to the seller and accordingly, the seller gave you your goods.

Were the goods you received something other than advertised? In other words, were you promised a 2002 model and received a 2000 model?

If not, I have to say I am failing to see what the issue is...you bought something - Paypal did as asked and gave your money to the seller, and the seller sent you what you bought. The fact that you subsequently became "worried about the shelf life of the products and wanted to return them" probably can't be pinned on either EBay or PayPal.

Unless I don't have all the facts or misunderstand the ones I do have.

In any event, it sounds like you wound up with good gear and are ready to go diving. If you're from CT, check out the NELD section, as we are always planning dive trips in and around the New England area.

Welcome to the boards.

KKM

 

[bwerb]

I don't think Ebay or Paypal was your problem...and quite frankly, regulators can last for decades. Take a look at some of the profile photos of people on this board who are diving with regulators and gear they have had since the 60's and 70's. Two year old regulators will be totally fine, they aren't like cottage cheese or something. Have your LDS give them a once over and hit the water!

Welcome to the boards,

Brian

 

[rajambarnett]

Yes, the regs were supposed to be new. Maybe I'm being over-cautious. (The physician in me.) The manufacturers recommend annual servicing, so that's kinda what I'm going by. I still contend that if someone quotes their product as "New", when in fact it is three years old (and by the way your life depends on its proper function), then you should be entitled to a refund if the terms of sale (and description) are not met. My beef, in reality, is with the policies of Paypal--you should be able to return something if the goods or services are not met. By their own description, they have no interest in the attributes or quality of a product that is paid for--in fact, the guy could have shipped me a pair of used boxers and they wouldn't care. The seller should have simply stated the real age of the product. It's age alone would have been enough to dissuade me from buying.

I plan to have the regs checked out by my LDS. True, they will probably be ok---but the guy should have been up front, rather than hiding behind Paypal.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[bwerb]

and have a warranty card. They "annual" servicing is dependent upon them actually having been used. Any regulator is tested and gone over during it's initial assembly with hoses etc. I think where you are feeling slighted is that they were not "the current model year". There is no dispute that these were indeed BRAND NEW regs ie. unused. It would be the equivalent of me buying a toaster from a shop which had it on the shelf for three years, yes the toaster is "new".

Please take no offense at this, I really don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with the regs you bought. In terms of safety, a reg on the shelf for three years is not going to have been affected one bit. Again, have your shop hook it up and enjoy your dives.

As far as "paypal" goes, they are not in the warranty business, you are making a private transaction with another individual and they are the facilitator of the cash movement, nothing more. Paypal and Ebay have pages of disclaimers stating exactly what is and is not their responsibility. I know you feel like you got hosed but seriously, I think you are overreacting a bit. Take it all as a learning experience, now you know how it really works. You can decide next time if it is worth it to do it again.

One comment on your gear selection...Spare Air???? Please please please do a search on this piece of equipment using the boards archives. You mention that you are a physician and concerned about your safety...this piece of gear has far more likelyhood of permanently ending your diving career than any three year old reg, serviced or not. You might want to Ebay it right away

 

[Mverick]

We've got regs in from the manufacturer that were 2 years old when we received them.

And even new regs should be checked out before you dive with them. Especialy if bought online. And leisure pro is notorius for old stock regs and gear. Most online dealers are.

Now after saying that. My ScubaPro MK20/G500 was 2 years old when I bought it. But it was also new in box. I never had it checked out and have dove it for 3 years or more without even a burp or fart out of it. And I haven't gotten the annuals done on it either. And since I DM at a shop I wouldn't have to pay for it either. But if it ain't broke don't fix it. Alot of times after you have one checked out you have problems. That's when you seem to get problems. Once it's set up right it lasts a long time. At least what mine have done for me.

My Apeks I have are 1 to 2 years old and haven't had annuals on them either. Or even a initial checkout. I bought a total of 9 new apeks regs. And they are sweet still.

 

[MgicTwnger]

rajambarnett once bubbled...
Bought it through Ebay from a seller with no feedback.

And you wonder why you had problems?

 

[MikeS]

King Kong Matt once bubbled...
It doesn't sound, from the way you describe the situation, that EBay or PayPal screwed you.
KKM

I think that PayPal is screwing anyone that uses a credit card on a PayPal account. IMHO, they have an obligation to make it clear that you are forfeiting the rights normally associated with using a credit card. They’re not doing this. It’s just a mater of time until a class action suit addresses this.

Mike

 

[Groundhog246]

MikeS once bubbled...
I think that PayPal is screwing anyone that uses a credit card on a PayPal account. Mike

People seem to confuse auctions, Ebay and others, with retail stores. That and they think retail stores are obligated to accept returns. Stores accept returns voluntarily, most larger ones as a matter of policy, but none are legally obligated to do so. ALL auctions are buyer beware, you buy what you bid on. The auctioneer is just a facilitator not the seller, Payal and others just transfer funds. If you sent a money order and went to the bank to cancel, too bad, same with Paypal and IF you read their terms of service, it's there. To me the complaint is kinda like peole who sign the liability waivers before a dive and then try to sue for a DCS hit.
To the original poster, as previous posts have stated, unused, in the box, with all the documents, is NEW. I just sold a current model laser printer, recently introduced model, date of manufacture was 9 months ago. Probably spent 3 to 4 of those 9 in a shipping container. While we're used to trucks, couriers and overnight deliveries, the vast majority of goods coming across oceans are shipped in containers on board a ship and transit times are measured in weeks and months, not days. If you're nervous about the regs, have an annual done. My main reg set is over 10 years old and I wouldn't trade for a new set.

 

[Big-t-2538]

Ebay was like a garage sale. You know, people selling to people, with the goods right there in front of you. That's what it was before all the scam artists and liquidation hunters joined in. You used to rarely (if ever) find someon who would take a credit card....now you virtually have no other form of payment. I read the paypal agreement, and didn't like it at all. Ebay has since purchased paypal (I believe), and this is all the more reason for me to not pay through them. I would rather spend the few cents on a long-distance call to talk to the seller, confirm shipping information, and credit card billing.

Anyway...just my 0.02