Paying for rescue costs

[BettyRubble]

BettyRubble, it's funny you should mention the "idiot savant". I'm not sure where this case was located, but several years ago, when I lived in Arizona, I was a volunteer with a local sheriff's department search and rescue team. We basically did it all, including high angle rescues and recoveries, ground searches, etc. We in fact had one adult male, who in my 2 years with the organization, was rescued three times. All three instances were due to lack of planning and being properly equipped or trained for the situations in which he placed himself. In addition to the stupid motorist law previously mentioned, Arizona did in fact pass a law allowing fines to be levied for rescues conducted due to gross negligence. In all of my time with the organization, and averaging one rescue per month, I had never seen this used, although there were several occasions in which I thought it should have been. It is one thing to legitimately have an accident, even in an extreme sport, such as climbing or hang gliding, and require assistance. In those instances, I don't feel it is appropriate to charge for assistance. Accidents happen. It is entirely another, to do something illegal, or so stupid, such as climbing over a fence atop an 800 foot waterfall and plunge to your death, thus requiring others to put their lives at risk to recover your corpse.

Where to draw the line? I don't know. Perhaps these issues should be handled in civil court, where a judge may determine the level of negligence and fiscal responsibility. I would think in most instances, unless a diver was found to be partaking in activities far outside their training level, or was in gross violation of established safety standards, the thought of charging for rescue should not apply. Accidents and anomalies will happen. I also tend to agree that as divers, we can insure against our own stupidity, as it was cleverly put, through organizations such as DAN, which any frequent diver would be wise to do.

Well said. I completely agree. And the Scuba World will be happy to know the FIRST thing I signed up for after Cert was my DAN membership . . . now if I could only get the same insurance for my work in the kitchen . . .

 

[Jeff Toorish]

This story illustrates something I have been concerned about for a long time. Frankly, in the US (and possibly other western nations) there is a growing problem with people not truly understanding real risks, while oddly celebrating synthetic thrills.

I call to the "high five" syndrome.

Have you ever been at an amusement park and seen people getting off the roller coaster and giving each other high fives, as if they had actually accomplished something? The fact is, driving to the park, or even walking through the parking lot, is statistically much more dangerous than riding that roller coaster. The roller coaster is a synthetic thrill, but it has masked some real dangers in peoples' minds bacause is seems so much more immediate.

The problem is, people no longer identify legitimate threats. A friend of mine is a Maine Guide, he has nearly every guide certification. He leads hunting trips in Alaska --he told me about one trip on which the guy he was leading withheld medical problems that really limited his ability to react in the wild. When an unexpected blizzard whipped up, my buddy told the guy they had to get to shelter immediately or they would die. The guy said, "I understand, but we're not in any real danger, right?" The guy expected the Maine Guide to miraculously get him out of the tight spot, even though the guy was about 300 pounds and my buddy is maybe 160 tops.

My point here is, this kid from Mass. goes up onto Mt. Washington, which is dangerous in itself. When he twists his ankle, instead of turning the hike, he keeps going, and eventually gets himself into trouble. Rescuers have to risk their own lives to go after him. But, of coures, he knew he was "not in any real danger," beause those rescue teams would be coming.

I don't mean to pick on one kid, but I fear things have gotten very mixed up. The list of fears keeps growing, but most of them are synthetic, like the thrill from the roller coaster. All the while real dangers are ignored.

No kid has ever died from playing video games, but there are all sorts of groups trying to outlaw these games. There is no evidence such games even have a negative effect. On the other hand, since 1931, nearly 700 kids have died playing football. Again, misplaced understanding of what is really dangerous and what is not.

Clearly this is critically important for divers who must assess risks all the time, both before and during dives. It is doubly important for instructors who must clearly teach students about the dangers of diving. Diving is fun, but how many of us have seen divers who simply did not understand the risks involved in some particular type of dive?

As a journalist in Maine, I covered my share of people lost in the woods or on mountain hiking trails. In pretty much every case, it was someone who thought they knew what they were doing and simply did not. If, as a society, we spent less time coming up with fake things to fear (or thrill) and actually worked to understand real dangers, everyone would be better off and states would not have to pass laws requiring rescued hikers from paying back the costs of the rescue.

Jeff

 

[Tigerman]

I find that lots of people getting lost in the mountains around here just dont have a clue whatsoever and they just dont see that something can go wrong. They dont think they know what theire doing, theire just oblivious as to how fast things can change when youre out there.

 

[The Great Kazoo]

BEST POST EVER........If I knew I had to pay for my own stupidity, maybe I wouldn't be so stupid......why should the general (non-diving public) have to pay for my chamber ride, We created DAN, so I pay my dues to offset my Stupidity.......

I agree. I see someone removed the Thanks Button on this .

 

[paddler3d]

I've been up and down Mt. Washington countless times. Only in the winter though. You cannot access that mountain w/o warning signs. High altitude climbers (K2, Everest, so on so forth) will train on Mt. Washington. You get real similar weather patterns. The AT, Appalachian Trial, goes right across the summit. The AT is a hiking trail. There is this perception of 'how bad can it be'. According to the article, that jurisdiction and 131 rescue missions in a year.

Every few days, rescuers are putting themselves in harms way to help someone.

Should they charge a fee, or fine for someones negligence? Absolutely.

Every diver should carry dive insurance.

It should be up to the local jurisdictions to charge for rescue and to determine if the rescue was a result of negligence.

 

[meierdierck]

I have worked Fire/Medic, and done limited search & rescue, and I wholeheartedly believe you should pay for stupid...

But I do understand people wont call when they need the help if they cant afford the bill, and we end up doing alot more body recoveries, not good either....

I will add that the men & women that dedicate themselves to our safety understand going in the not only are putting themselves in harms way for a stranger (often a stupid stranger),they wont get thanked and could get sued for their good works,

 

[MikeFerrara]

I'm all in favor of individual responsibility and paying for what you use but I have a couple of concerns here.

The first has already been pointed out and that is a "fine" is usually a penalty for violating law. If that's the case there should be charges and the opportunity for a trial to determine guilt and sentencing.

The second is that while I don't mind paying for what I receive, I don't want to be pay over and over. I don't know about the rest of you but I've been paying taxes all my life and I've never been rescued. As far as I can tell, there are very few public services that I have benefited from (even when I needed them) but I am forced pay the bills anyway. Maybe I've already paid for a rescue or three?

In regard to the often repeated charge that someone in need of rescue is putting rescue workers at risk...Municiple "rescue" workers chose their vocation, collect a pay check and are at liberty to seek less risky employment.

 

[ScubaInChicago]

I'm in favor of the Darwin Awards and having a good laugh at the expense of others.