Part time vs full time instructors

[TMHeimer]

I do not think you can count your cost to become a decent basic diver (OW, AOW, Rescue, etc) in your costs to become a dive pro.

OK. I just listed that because DivingD said "all fees, courses....."-- though he listed AOW through Instructor, so I guess knock off 3-$500 if you don't include OW.

 

[MichaelMc]

OK. I just listed that because DivingD said "all fees, courses....."-- though he listed AOW through Instructor, so I guess knock off 3-$500 if you don't include OW.

Sorry, objecting late in the discussion.

MSRP of all courses and e Learning from AoW to IDC, Plus rough cost of diving at an LDS to get to the minimum dive count, and full gear inc PDC plus all the little bits and pieces you buy along the way

I do not think you can count your cost to become a decent basic diver (OW, AOW, Rescue, etc) in your costs to become a dive pro, nor of having your own gear. Its like wanting to be a skating pro but being a bare beginning skater with no skates and counting your first pair of skates in the cost to become a pro.

 

[Scraps]

I do not think you can count your cost to become a decent basic diver (OW, AOW, Rescue, etc) in your costs to become a dive pro.

And you certainly can't deduct them, or the DM course costs, either. Continuing ed after you're a pro? Consult your accountant. Unfortunately, if you're a dive instructor, you probably don't make enough to need an accountant.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Sorry, objecting late in the discussion.


I do not think you can count your cost to become a decent basic diver (OW, AOW, Rescue, etc) in your costs to become a dive pro, nor of having your own gear. Its like wanting to be a skating pro but being a bare beginning skater with no skates and counting your first pair of skates in the cost to become a pro.

It depends on your POV. If (as in this case) a diver who is OW with 30 dives asks me whats teh cost to be an instructor I have two options

I can be a proper sales person, and just tell them the DM + IDC costs and gloss over everything else, or I can be honest and tell them all the steps and costs so they go into it eyes open.

A huge bug bear of mine is that the costs to be an instructor aren't transparent. Most people only see the headline figure of course and training pack cost.

Not finding out about the additional costs of IE, Insurance, Certification, Agency fees, costs to have current versions of all training manuals for the courses you teach and the miscellaneous bits and pieces you'll buy to make your life easier. For me it wasn't the cost, it was teh feeling it was a constant trickle of paying for items rather than a one time bigger fee.

And yes I think the cost of yoru own gear is relevant, since it's "highly stressed" by all agencies that you should own your own gear as a pro

I know how much I've spent on diving over the last 10 years, but it's an irrelevant number because had I not spent it on divign it would have been spent on something else. There's zero chance it would still be in my bank account earning money. But that's the perspective of looking backwards. i.e. I've spent the money on a course/equipment so can forget about that cost vs looking fwd and wanting a good idea of how much I need to save/put away to get me to the destination I want.

So my point is, the actual cost of becoming an instructor depends on your starting point.

 

[TMHeimer]

It depends on your POV. If (as in this case) a diver who is OW with 30 dives asks me whats teh cost to be an instructor I have two options

I can be a proper sales person, and just tell them the DM + IDC costs and gloss over everything else, or I can be honest and tell them all the steps and costs so they go into it eyes open.

A huge bug bear of mine is that the costs to be an instructor aren't transparent. Most people only see the headline figure of course and training pack cost.

Not finding out about the additional costs of IE, Insurance, Certification, Agency fees, costs to have current versions of all training manuals for the courses you teach and the miscellaneous bits and pieces you'll buy to make your life easier. For me it wasn't the cost, it was teh feeling it was a constant trickle of paying for items rather than a one time bigger fee.

And yes I think the cost of yoru own gear is relevant, since it's "highly stressed" by all agencies that you should own your own gear as a pro

I know how much I've spent on diving over the last 10 years, but it's an irrelevant number because had I not spent it on divign it would have been spent on something else. There's zero chance it would still be in my bank account earning money. But that's the perspective of looking backwards. i.e. I've spent the money on a course/equipment so can forget about that cost vs looking fwd and wanting a good idea of how much I need to save/put away to get me to the destination I want.

So my point is, the actual cost of becoming an instructor depends on your starting point.

Yes, I agree here. Depends on your starting point. And I guess how much you teach, what you make, etc. I think your $20,000 cost to become an instructor just scared a couple of us.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I think your $20,000 cost to become an instructor just scared a couple of us.

Out of interest. Work it out for yourself on what is charged at yoru local rate

AOW+Rescue+Nitrox+DM+Instructor. Add in all Training materials or e learning,
1 complete set of dive gear inc average exposure protection (no drysuit) inc cheap PDC and analogue compass

Price of 60 dives at commercial rate (assumes 9 dives completed as part of OW + Aow + 21 dives included in DM course) to get to min 100 dives

PADI Fee for DM, Dive insurance upto DM, Pro Dive insurance.

IE fee
DM and Instructor Cert fees For Instructor cost of New OW, AoW, Rescue DM, and Nitrox course manuals
(as you should have the latest current version)

If you don't know - say so as some fees will be standard and others can fill in the gaps

Everything at MSRP Ignoring any free diving you might get or discounts.

See what number you get too

 

[TMHeimer]

Out of interest. Work it out for yourself on what is charged at yoru local rate

AOW+Rescue+Nitrox+DM+Instructor. Add in all Training materials or e learning,
1 complete set of dive gear inc average exposure protection (no drysuit) inc cheap PDC and analogue compass

Price of 60 dives at commercial rate (assumes 9 dives completed as part of OW + Aow + 21 dives included in DM course) to get to min 100 dives

PADI Fee for DM, Dive insurance upto DM, Pro Dive insurance.

IE fee
DM and Instructor Cert fees For Instructor cost of New OW, AoW, Rescue DM, and Nitrox course manuals
(as you should have the latest current version)

If you don't know - say so as some fees will be standard and others can fill in the gaps

Everything at MSRP Ignoring any free diving you might get or discounts.

See what number you get too

I did that-- next to bottom post last page (page 4).
I didn't include the 60 dives you needed for completing DM course (I had 158 before the course and maybe 100 or so before I even thought of doing DM) or the 100 for Instructor course. Gotta figure if you're an anywhere dedicated rec. diver you'll reach those numbers easily anyway without going pro in mind.
As you say, depends on your starting point. I will add it also depends on what you count as cost of becoming an instructor. Agree with you that you get dinged for the fees, insurance, current versions of this & that, etc. I would say those are costs related to remaining an (active) instructor. Other jobs may have similar fees--teacher union dues, Musicians union "work dues", Doctors' ongoing malpractice insurance, etc. I consider my college degree costs as what it cost me to become a teacher. I don't consider anything after that.
In agreeing with MichaelMc' skating comparison, all the rec. courses up to & including Rescue Diver could be compared to me taking private clarinet lessons and playing in school bands, all city, state, etc. and becoming good enough to consider majoring in music.
I took Rescue in 2006 with no thought of being Pro, and
DM in 2011. Everyone on SB recommends that every diver take RD as it's like the best course on Earth (I agree). Hard to include all those courses in the cost of becoming an instructor. Even so, I figured the total there to maybe be $2K?
Again, depends on how you look at it. 20K would scare me away from even considering it (unless I made Dr.'s pay doing it).
Don't think we really disagree on much. Depends on what you count as costs.

 

[sea_ledford]

Price of 60 dives at commercial rate (assumes 9 dives completed as part of OW + Aow + 21 dives included in DM course) to get to min 100 dives

That's going to be the big difference. Commercial rate for diving around here would be expensive day trips ($350 for a 2 tank) or liveaboards. Maxing out your dives per trip would still require 5 liveaboard trips at $750, so $3700. Or at 2 dives/day at a local mud hole with a $20/day entry fee is $600. Do an international trip some place and you're looking at $4-5000 for maybe a dozen of those dives.

If you have access to beach diving, you are just looking at cost for fills.

 

[NAM001]

Whether you are a full time or part time employee at a LDS that status is but an admin stroke of a pen. i HAVE NOT SEEN A FULL TIME shop employee functioning solely as an instructor. However if you want to take a class they have a list of instructors they can contact for you. With that I assume teh shop takes a cut of the instructors fees.

 

[boulderjohn]

. With that I assume teh shop takes a cut of the instructors fees.

WIth every shop I know, it is the opposite. The shop takes the money, and they give the instructor a very small cut. What you describe would only be true for advanced classes the shop did not normally offer. In the two shops in which I worked, the instructor cut for a multi-hundred dollar course would vary between $15-$25 dollars. In once course I taught, I got $10 per student.