Part time vs full time instructors

[boulderjohn]

I have never known a full time instructor. I have known a number of people who are full time employees of the dive industry, but they have multiple responsibilities, one of which might be instructing.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I have never known a full time instructor. I have known a number of people who are full time employees of the dive industry, but they have multiple responsibilities, one of which might be instructing.

I know one in the US. Ryan Custureri. But he's really good. Has helped me out with my teaching more than anyone.

 

[Hartattack]

Most instructors are part-time with real jobs on the side. That doesn't really do the industry a service though. A lot of them will teach "for the love of it", so they don't mind only making peanuts, or trading time for other classes, trips, gear deals, free fills, etc.

But really a professional level rating that takes over 100 hours of training at a minimum, is risky enough to have mandated $1,000,000 ($2m suggested at this point) liability coverage, professional association dues, and take untrained people into environments that are inhospitable to human life should NOT be paid in barter.

PADIs Go Pro! campaign did a lot to make that happen, but all the instructors that accept the pay perpetuate it.

Imagine a plumber working for a discount at Home Depot. "Well, I don't really make much at this, but I get PVC for half off!"

-Chris

Some good points being made here. However, my post might not have been clear. I think you forget one key area. Some teach independently/part-time because yes, they love it—but also because it gives them autonomy away from ****** dive centers who create puppy mill divers. You get to teach in a configuration that you feel will take a diver from OW to Tec if they want.

In my case, I like to think of myself the same way a professional mountain guide would. It gives me upwards of 5 to 8 days (or more) for my Open Water Class, which sticks to 4 total divers at a price per head that I could afford to be a full-time diver if I wanted, but I’d rather have health insurance and a pension. So with that said, yes I’m part-time but that part-time instruction is fully dedicated to my students with passion, patience, and time that large volume shops just don’t have. I tend to keep my students for the long haul because I believe in their enrichment and progression.

Nevertheless, there will always be puppy mill and up-sale speciality course shops that will continue to keep instructor wages as low as possible for their bottom line.

 

[Edward3c]

Some good points being made here. However, my post might not have been clear. I think you forget one key area. Some teach independently/part-time because yes, they love it—but also because it gives them autonomy away from ****** dive centers who create puppy mill divers. You get to teach in a configuration that you feel will take a diver from OW to Tec if they want.

In my case, I like to think of myself the same way a professional mountain guide would. It gives me upwards of 5 to 8 days (or more) for my Open Water Class, which sticks to 4 total divers at a price per head that I could afford to be a full-time diver if I wanted, but I’d rather have health insurance and a pension. So with that said, yes I’m part-time but that part-time instruction is fully dedicated to my students with passion, patience, and time that large volume shops just don’t have. I tend to keep my students for the long haul because I believe in their enrichment and progression.

Nevertheless, there will always be puppy mill and up-sale speciality course shops that will continue to keep instructor wages as low as possible for their bottom line.

This is U.K. bias.

If you teach diving for reward (money or something else) except expenses, even one day a year then the Diving at Work Regulations apply. This requires a:
* Health & Safety Executive medical,
* a written risk assessment,
* a standby safety diver on site or in water if the student hasn’t been taught rescue,
* 3rd Party liability insurance (not mandatory, but crazy not to have).

Therefore, it’s near impossible to teach diving as an independent instructor.

 

[oly5050user]

I am a recreational diver. As I get further along with my certifications (SSI), I am thinking about 'Dive Guide', 'Instructor', etc as it would be fun to lead trips and certify new students. I am not considering this as a career change or a way to make money, and the > $100 annual fee is somewhat discouraging.

The parallel I can think of is marital arts. Most (but not all) good karate Sensei have other full positions, and in while in many cases marital arts is as important or more important than their 'day job' it isn't a primary source of income. I am somewhere between an instructor and a student - I can teach karate, but generally either assist a primary instructor or just focus on learning, and while I could open my own dojo, I don't see myself doing that anytime soon. And even if I did open my own Dojo, I would do so without quitting my day job, which would be a much bigger commitment.

How does this work for diving professionals? Are most people full time with no other income? Or do part time instructors exist like Karate? Do they tend to at least make enough to cover their SSI fees or is this just the cost of taking the hobby to the next level?

Taught part time as a side job for years at low pay for a few different LDS in area. Now retired from corporate job and teach full time here in Westchester New York for a LDS near home. I feel I am well paid enough that I have no issues maintaining membership or insurance fees with instructor earned money alone. can also maintain a boat here in a slip on instructing money easily with plenty left over. Not enough if I needed to support a family on instructor income, but with pension income and other investments, easily doable here. Keeps me very active in facility pool 2-3 times a week. I am 69 yrs of age. All comes down to what you want out of life and plan accordingly.

 

[broncobowsher]

Taught part time as a side job for years at low pay for a few different LDS in area. Now retired from corporate job and teach full time here in Westchester New York for a LDS near home. I feel I am well paid enough that I have no issues maintaining membership or insurance fees with instructor earned money alone. can also maintain a boat here in a slip on instructing money easily with plenty left over. Not enough if I needed to support a family on instructor income, but with pension income and other investments, easily doable here. Keeps me very active in facility pool 2-3 times a week. I am 69 yrs of age. All comes down to what you want out of life and plan accordingly.

So a full time job without enough income. Great retirement gig. But being young and wanting living wage, probably not possible.

I remember years ago my brother was a flight instructor in Illinois. It was a full time job with part time income. My brother is married and things were working out for him. But there are stories of a co-worker; Sitting in an apartment in the dark because the electricity was too expensive to run a light. He was doing the job he wanted to do. Flying and making a living as a flight instructor. Typically this is done to build hours to go commercial. Never heard how it ended, my brother moved shortly after. Going into flying freight, and eventually medivac.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Professional liability. It's through the insurance houses not the agencies. DAN is who I use, and it's actually about $800, but close enough.
Not required in some other countries, but mandatory here. It's BS, but it is what it is

Does that cover your DAN personal dive insurance in that fee as well?

 

[tbone1004]

Does that cover your DAN personal dive insurance in that fee as well?

no, you have to be a DAN member first

 

[Diving Dubai]

Yikes! Is that professional liability insurance or something else? Is it through ssi? Is that just for people who own their own dive center or anyone doing anything official

The reality is, from Aow to Instructor with all fees, courses and dive costs (assuming your 30 dives) is conservatively around $20,000 If you don't have your own kit add another $3000. And then yes the annual fees. That's just an OW Instructor. Go further up the ladder and add more money. Get into Tech divign and become a Tech instructor, then add lots more money

The reality is, the ROI on the spend getting to Instructor is Zero. Nada. None.

Post qualification yes it's possible to theoretically break even on your annual spend just teaching, but in practice you'dd need to teach a ton of courses and probably lose all the enjoyment

Most part time instructors do it for the enjoyment primarily and forget about the money they've spent getting there.

 

[boulderjohn]

Some good points being made here. However, my post might not have been clear. I think you forget one key area. Some teach independently/part-time because yes, they love it—but also because it gives them autonomy away from ****** dive centers who create puppy mill divers. You get to teach in a configuration that you feel will take a diver from OW to Tec if they want.

The OP indicated that his training path is SSI, and that agency requires that instructors be employees of dive centers. They cannot be independent. The reason for that, as was explained in a workshop led by the SSI owner/President back then (who still runs the agency), is that the instructor's job is to help the shop sell gear. When our shop switched to SSI (the reason for the workshop), the shop followed his advice of identifying a set of gear from the fins up that gave the best markup and then required all instructors to purchase and wear that "uniform" and tell students they had personally selected those items because they were the best. Yes, if I had stayed with the shop, I would been required to tell my students that I had personally selected the Aqualung Slingshot fins, the Suunto Cobra III computer, the Atomic SS1 integrated alternate air, etc. because I believed those were the very best items to use for scuba. The gear that I did actually use for my personal diving was sold by the shop, but it was not part of the official "uniform" because it did not provide the highest possible markup.