Part time vs full time instructors

[sea_ledford]

What you see here is part of the legal problems associated with scuba instruction in the US. With that first shop, we were classified as contract workers. With the shop scheduling the classes (and other such issues), however, we were legally employees.
--SNIP--
In summary, I think that if the IRS randomly checked how dive shops pay employees, there would be a whole lot of illegalities found across the country.

Oh man, if I had a nickel for everytime I had to deal this this "contractor" BS, I'd have like... a buck fifty. Which I would then have to pay half of in taxes because my employer doesn't pay them for contractors.

For those of you that are in this position, tell your boss that you'll be subcontacting out all of your work. You'll find out real quick if they actually think you are a contractor or an employee. Or better, just go to a shop that will treat you with respect. Those exist as well.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Oh man, if I had a nickel for everytime I had to deal this this "contractor" BS, I'd have like... a buck fifty. Which I would then have to pay half of in taxes because my employer doesn't pay them for contractors.

For those of you that are in this position, tell your boss that you'll be subcontacting out all of your work. You'll find out real quick if they actually think you are a contractor or an employee. Or better, just go to a shop that will treat you with respect. Those exist as well.

Diving instructors are replaced before they are shown the door.

 

[boulderjohn]

Diving instructors are replaced before they are shown the door.

As my last director of instruction said, instructors are a dime a dozen. He said an instructor comes in looking for work about every other week, so if an instructor working for the shop does not like the pay rate, they have a list of potential instructors who will.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

As my last director of instruction said, instructors are a dime a dozen. He said an instructor comes in looking for work about every other week, so if an instructor working for the shop does not like the pay rate, they have a list of potential instructors who will.

And that's why it is so hard to get open water students off their knees.

 

[oly5050user]

WIth every shop I know, it is the opposite. The shop takes the money, and they give the instructor a very small cut. What you describe would only be true for advanced classes the shop did not normally offer. In the two shops in which I worked, the instructor cut for a multi-hundred dollar course would vary between $15-$25 dollars. In once course I taught, I got $10 per student.

Many instructors work for way too little $$. Boulder John, the course you taught for $10. Per student , how many students? If a private course you should get Minimum of 40% of course fee, per student, plus a few tips. Anything less I would not get out of bed in the am. That does not include training dives, which should be $80 per student for the 4 ow certification dives plus hopefully tips that you can choose to distribute to any dm’s you may have.

 

[TMHeimer]

Many instructors work for way too little $$. Boulder John, the course you taught for $10. Per student , how many students? If a private course you should get Minimum of 40% of course fee, per student, plus a few tips. Anything less I would not get out of bed in the am. That does not include training dives, which should be $80 per student for the 4 ow certification dives plus hopefully tips that you can choose to distribute to any dm’s you may have.

You told me a while back that your DMs can pull in some very decent tip money for say a weekend at Dutch Springs. Though I'd still prefer a straight salary, the amounts you mentioned seem quite good. I wonder how common a practice this is nation-wide?

 

[boulderjohn]

Many instructors work for way too little $$. Boulder John, the course you taught for $10. Per student , how many students? If a private course you should get Minimum of 40% of course fee, per student, plus a few tips. Anything less I would not get out of bed in the am. That does not include training dives, which should be $80 per student for the 4 ow certification dives plus hopefully tips that you can choose to distribute to any dm’s you may have.

It was nitrox--a course with no dives. It could be anywhere from 1-3 students. More would be theoretically possible, but pretty rare. It would come to anywhere from $3-$7 dollars per hour.

 

[NAM001]

What you see here is part of the legal problems associated with scuba instruction in the US. With that first shop, we were classified as contract workers. With the shop scheduling the classes (and other such issues), however, we were legally employees. This came to a head was when we discovered that different instructors were being paid at different rates. When we asked why, we learned that the ones who were being paid at the higher rate also did other work for the store (like retail sales) and were therefore employees. As employees, they had to be paid at the higher rate legally. As it turned out, all the instructors working for the store were women, and all the contract instructors were men, so the shop (managed by a woman) was paying all the women more than all the men (except her partner, who also did work for the store). When this threatened to blow up, the shop realized they were on shaky legal ground and changed the pay system, making everyone an employee (which is what they legally were all along).

The second shop also made instructors employees, but with its system of paying per pupil, instructors teaching low enrollment classes (like my specialty and tech classes) quite often made less than minimum age--sometimes far less. When I pointed this out to the director of instruction, he showed his knowledge of labor law by saying that it was legal to pay less than minimum wage in a profession where the employee might get tips--which for us might happen once every couple of months. He used wait staff as an example, and he was quite dubious when I told him that if wait staff do not get minimum wage with their added tips, management is legally required to make up the difference. He was not moved by that argument, and it is one of the reasons I don't work there anymore.

In summary, I think that if the IRS randomly checked how dive shops pay employees, there would be a whole lot of illegalities found across the country.

Its a shame that things have progressed to this. Greed and money is almost always are the root of things that go south, and what results is seldom is often a detrement for the consumer. I have empathy for those is this situation. Its killing the goose that lays the golden egg.

 

[NAM001]

People who want to learn generally do. They get the smaller class sizes. But many people are driven just by price. They just want the c-card. If being on the knees, staring at silt results in a c-card that is recognized the same as one where they have to be neutrally buoyant, trim, and deploy a DSMB without changing depth significantly, why bother with the latter?

I agree with you totally. The students are a big factor and they are half of the learning process. For those reasons being independant is a saving grace for instructors that want to put out quality. I my self have taught for nearly a decade. not always did I get what I hope to be the ideal grad, some things you have to accept. In most cases it takes perhaps a year until the light bulb comes on and from that point I was happy with my efforts in the long run.

 

[NAM001]

As my last director of instruction said, instructors are a dime a dozen. He said an instructor comes in looking for work about every other week, so if an instructor working for the shop does not like the pay rate, they have a list of potential instructors who will.

that is business and how it works. its called competition and with out it classes would be 1000 a class. I have the same problem where I live. all local electricians are in the same local union. the union controls all rates. there is no such thing as competitive pricing to keep things affordable. HIre in from an adjacent county and the costs drop to 1/3 for the same job. It works both ways good and bad.