Question Panic in the experienced diver?

It would seem to me that, as we gain experience and go through some minor glitches on dives, we should increase our capacity to tolerate issues underwater. I'm wondering what could cause an experienced (say, more than 200 lifetime dives) diver to become distressed enough to lose rational thought. Has anyone here (who meets those criteria) been through a panic event? What caused it, and what did you do?

 

[txaggie08]

No level of training or preperation can make anyone immune to panic.

I made a body recovery a few weeks ago in 22ft of water. On my second decent to the remains, I became entangled on the bottom in a tree. I have never come so close to shear panic in my life. This water is near true blackout....I had a 300 lumen secondary light on my BC, on, and could not see it, at all.

Training is your friend. Practice until you master the basics, they'll save your life.

 

[dwhthediver]

Can't say I have been panicked, but have definitely been "dark narc'd" 1 dive to 110' got to the wreck, and could not get rid of the thought if I stay here I am going to die. I signaled my buddy and ended the dive, and haven't had it since, but it really pushed home the thought of how no matter what your rational brain tells you, the irrational thoughts can be strong enough to overwhelm you.

 

[herbdb]

I think something that impacts panic/nonpanic response is familiarity with the situation. By this I don't necessarily mean actual experience. For example, Reading a thread on a serious incident gives us the opportunity to think about how we would react to the same problem. Practicing things like reg recovery or mask clearing helps control our reaction when it happens unexpectedly.

I was a military pilot for 20 yrs and an airline pilot for another 17 years. We memorized procedures, practiced in simulators and in aircraft. The mantra there was Stop, Analyze the situation and Take the Proper Action. Very similar to what we are taught in diving. Chair flying was emphasized in emergency training. This was simply imagining a situation then methodically going through the steps required to solve the problem. BS sessions were encouraged so you could learn about hairy situations from someone who survived it. Every acccident was studied to see if pilot action could have made a better outcome.

I believe that avid ScubaBoarders are doing some of these things as they discuss incidents and potential problems and in doing so, are reducing their chances of panic in a similar situation. Proper training and awarness of potential problems are the key to overcoming panic.

 

[jewelofnile69]

I think something that impacts panic/nonpanic response is familiarity with the situation. By this I don't necessarily mean actual experience. For example, Reading a thread on a serious incident gives us the opportunity to think about how we would react to the same problem. Practicing things like reg recovery or mask clearing helps control our reaction when it happens unexpectedly.

I was a military pilot for 20 yrs and an airline pilot for another 17 years. We memorized procedures, practiced in simulators and in aircraft. The mantra there was Stop, Analyze the situation and Take the Proper Action. Very similar to what we are taught in diving. Chair flying was emphasized in emergency training. This was simply imagining a situation then methodically going through the steps required to solve the problem. BS sessions were encouraged so you could learn about hairy situations from someone who survived it. Every acccident was studied to see if pilot action could have made a better outcome.

I believe that avid ScubaBoarders are doing some of these things as they discuss incidents and potential problems and in doing so, are reducing their chances of panic in a similar situation. Proper training and awarness of potential problems are the key to overcoming panic.

Great post! My soldiers hated us doing battle drills while still in Kuwait going into Iraq simulating being attacked or hitting an IED. Well, damn glad we did because it happened and we did exactly what we trained to do in that situation.

I'm a relatively new diver and I know this thread was asking this question of those with 200 dives but I feel the need to respond.

I did awesome with mask removal and clearing in my OW class and my first big dive trip to Bonaire. This next time around to Bonaire I had major nasal issue and had a super hard time clearing my mask so just dealt with a little water in my nose area most of the trip. When practicing mask removal and clearing a few weeks back I started to seriously panic when it was my turn after DH did his just fine. I gave him a sign that basically said I wasn't doing it (even though I had committed that I would practice). He gave me the "I understand" and we went on our dive. When we finished diving, we went to an area where I could kneel down and put my head underwater without my mask on and then put it on and cleared it just fine. Then I went to 5 feet of water and did it and then 10 feet and did it. But I was seriously freaking out when I had to do it at 20 feet of water (although I've done it there many times). Point being I'm going to continue practicing this at the start or finish of every dive from now on.

Anyway, this freak out listed above was getting me nervous about my AOW coming up in a few weeks time. I was starting to freak out about "what if he makes me take my mask off during our deep dive" and I freak out and/or refuse to do it and don't pass the course. Then I remembered 1) I can always plug my nose and close my eyes if I have to and 2) that's not the point of the AOW deep dive anyway (right?). But then I started freaking out about how crappy the visibility is at the quarry we are going to be doing our deep dive at...so will I freak out during the deep dive anyway because I can't see **** b/c I sometimes panic when vis is less than 10 feet (and here sometimes it's only about 2-5 feet). So any thoughts on this one to help me prep for this? We have been doing crappy vis dives and have at least 1 more scheduled in between now and our AOW course so just curious if there are any tips to get passed my insecurities.

 

[Puffer Fish]

JewelofNile69... thanks for taking the time to post.

You present a very honest view of how people are effected....get hit with and IED and follow your training....then get nervous about taking a mask off.

Note: We had lots of mines, bobby traps, etc during my time in combat, we just never had a really cool name for them.

Fear is not rational, it is your body thinking you are going to die and driving your reaction system to get you out of there. I've seen people that had no issue jumping into a life threating combat experience, who panic when a 10 inch spider crawls on them.

I don't believe you can make that go away, except slowly, with practice. But there are lots of things you can do...and the first is to keep control with your rational brain.

There are two things to keep in mind when diving:

1. The drill you are doing is because that can actually happen when you don't expect it....and in a place where panic will kill you.

2. As long as you have air...all is good (ok, there are some exceptions, like having a shark take a chunk out of you, but that, thankfully, does not happen very often)'

I have always had that same reaction..so to this day, I practice it. I swim laps in a pool without a mask, just using a snorkle. I take my mask off at least ever 3 or 4 dives.....if someone actually knocked my mask off (which has happened a lot of times), I don't care anymore.

Limited vis? That one is easy. We used to have people swim around with a blacked out mask (hopefully someone still does that), but start with the "I got air, so all is good" and consider the following:

1. At any one time, with a mask on, you can only see around 5% of the total surroundings, truth is, we are almost blind to start with.

2. Close your eyes...anything bad happen when you did that? Yea, you can open your eyes at any time...but when closed, you are in zero vis. Talking to your rational brain....there is nothing different about being in zero vis, than closing your eyes...so just relax and enjoy it.

Is the above going to stop you? Suddenly make everything easy? Nope, but if every time you find your getting tense, you tell yourself to relax...be calm and enjoy....the next time will be easier.

Good luck, by the way.

 

[jewelofnile69]

JewelofNile69... thanks for taking the time to post.

You present a very honest view of how people are effected....get hit with and IED and follow your training....then get nervous about taking a mask off.

Note: We had lots of mines, bobby traps, etc during my time in combat, we just never had a really cool name for them.

Fear is not rational, it is your body thinking you are going to die and driving your reaction system to get you out of there. I've seen people that had no issue jumping into a life threating combat experience, who panic when a 10 inch spider crawls on them.

I don't believe you can make that go away, except slowly, with practice. But there are lots of things you can do...and the first is to keep control with your rational brain.

There are two things to keep in mind when diving:

1. The drill you are doing is because that can actually happen when you don't expect it....and in a place where panic will kill you.

2. As long as you have air...all is good (ok, there are some exceptions, like having a shark take a chunk out of you, but that, thankfully, does not happen very often)'

I have always had that same reaction..so to this day, I practice it. I swim laps in a pool without a mask, just using a snorkle. I take my mask off at least ever 3 or 4 dives.....if someone actually knocked my mask off (which has happened a lot of times), I don't care anymore.

Limited vis? That one is easy. We used to have people swim around with a blacked out mask (hopefully someone still does that), but start with the "I got air, so all is good" and consider the following:

1. At any one time, with a mask on, you can only see around 5% of the total surroundings, truth is, we are almost blind to start with.

2. Close your eyes...anything bad happen when you did that? Yea, you can open your eyes at any time...but when closed, you are in zero vis. Talking to your rational brain....there is nothing different about being in zero vis, than closing your eyes...so just relax and enjoy it.

Is the above going to stop you? Suddenly make everything easy? Nope, but if every time you find your getting tense, you tell yourself to relax...be calm and enjoy....the next time will be easier.

Good luck, by the way.

Hey PufferFish/Captain Happy!

Wow! Thank you so much for your post. You have NO IDEA how helpful this is!! You are right...sometimes slowing down and thinking with the rational brain will help. We will be diving again this weekend in what I'll call "not so great" conditions just for more practice and I'm going to do these things you've suggested...in fact, I just printed your post out.


HEY EVERYONE,
I appreciate all the posts on this forum. This has been so informational and helpful...even when people don't agree. I'm really glad I found this "place."

 

[Puffer Fish]

JewelofNile69, thanks and I hope it is of some small value. In public speaking, one of the tricks to calming down is to imagine every you are talking to being naked... does not work with everyone, but if it does, it takes your mind off being nervous and helps keep you in rational thought.

I only have one innner ear (the other was damaged by an infection as a kid), so am prone to vertigo. I have a whole series of tricks I do if that happens and I know they work. Funny part is, I now am more relaxed when it happens, than normal diving, because the solution is to not "do" anything, but to let a line or bubbles be your guide. Yea, I had to learn how to inflate an SMB with my eyes closed, but in the end, I've found that just relaxing, and following the bottom and then a line is actually really easy. Oh, and knowing that as long as I have air, I'm just fine.

 

[jewelofnile69]

JewelofNile69, thanks and I hope it is of some small value. In public speaking, one of the tricks to calming down is to imagine every you are talking to being naked... does not work with everyone, but if it does, it takes your mind off being nervous and helps keep you in rational thought.

I only have one innner ear (the other was damaged by an infection as a kid), so am prone to vertigo. I have a whole series of tricks I do if that happens and I know they work. Funny part is, I now am more relaxed when it happens, than normal diving, because the solution is to not "do" anything, but to let a line or bubbles be your guide. Yea, I had to learn how to inflate an SMB with my eyes closed, but in the end, I've found that just relaxing, and following the bottom and then a line is actually really easy. Oh, and knowing that as long as I have air, I'm just fine.

Thanks!

Wow, how long did it take you as a kid to get used to the inner ear damage? I get vertigo because I get "stones" in my inner ear at times and I know how bad that sucks...so I'm curious how you learned to deal with it at such a young age.

 

[tracydr]

I've treated many people for panic attacks and generalized anxiety. Some of what is being described here could possibly be considered a panic attack, especially the unexplained episodes in very experienced divers. The weird thing about panic attacks is that they can happen at any time with little to no provocation. Also, they are controlled by the sympathetic nervous system but there are mental feedback things that you can do (biofeedback, yoga, meditation) to help. I see panic attack frequently in men, aged 25-35, often type A personalities. I've often wondered if it has to do with stuffing the stress down inside for so long, until the body becomes overwhelmed by stress hormones.
The problem with panic attacks is that most of the signaling is going on in the amygdala, a fairly primitive part of the brain. This is also the part of the brain that is effected by PTSD. ( post-traumatic stress disorder). This makes it pretty hard to "talk yourself down" from a true panic attack.
Panic attacks are not a sign of mental weakness, although they could certainly kill you under water.
I have PTSD, which is in the panic disorder family, so I can relate to the feelings of panic. I've also had a couple of near-panic episodes underwater, brought on from task and physical overload, usually when my mask was flooded or off. ( I have to work on that, especially in cold water) My PTSD is generally very well controlled nowadays by a men's prostate medicine, also used for blood pressure. It's an alpha blocker called prasazosin.
Here's a good description of panic attack from Wikipedia:
Sufferers of panic attacks often report a fear or sense of dying, "going crazy," or experiencing a heart attack or "flashing vision," feeling faint or nauseated, a numb sensation throughout the body, heavy breathing (and almost always, hyperventilation), or losing control of themselves. Some people also suffer from tunnel vision, mostly due to blood flow leaving the head to more critical parts of the body in defense. These feelings may provoke a strong urge to escape or flee the place where the attack began (a consequence of the sympathetic "fight-or-flight response") in which the hormone which causes this response is released in significant amounts. This response floods the body with hormones, particularly epinephrine (adrenaline), that aid it in defending against harm.^[3]
A panic attack is a response of the sympathetic nervous system (SNS). The most common symptoms may include trembling, dyspnea(shortness of breath), heart palpitations, chest pain (or chest tightness), hot flashes, cold flashes, burning sensations (particularly in the facial or neck area), sweating, nausea, dizziness (or slight vertigo), light-headedness, hyperventilation, paresthesias (tingling sensations), sensations of choking or smothering, difficulty moving and derealization. These physical symptoms are interpreted with alarm in people prone to panic attacks. This results in increased anxiety, and forms a positive feedback loop.^[7]
Often, the onset of shortness of breath and chest pain are the predominant symptoms; the sufferer incorrectly appraises this as a sign orsymptom of a heart attack. This can result in the person experiencing a panic attack seeking treatment in an emergency room. However, since chest pain and shortness of breath are indeed hallmark symptoms of cardiovascular illnesses, including unstable angina andmyocardial infarction (heart attack), especially in a person whose mental health status and heart health status are not known, attributing these pains to simple anxiety and not (also) a physical condition is a diagnosis of exclusion (other conditions must be ruled out first) until an electrocardiogram and a mental health assessment have been carried out.
Panic attacks are distinguished from other forms of anxiety by their intensity and their sudden, episodic nature.^[3] They are often experienced in conjunction with anxiety disorders and other psychological conditions, although panic attacks are not usually indicative of a mental disorder.

 

[drbill]

So far after thousands of dives I have yet to panic. My first potential situation that might have caused it was having both myself and my buddy run nearly OOA at 90 ft back in 1969 or 1970 because (in the days of no SPGs) someone left two empty bottles on the filled rack. I only remember two serious situations after that that might have caused me to panic and I didn't. I consider myself either very fortunate in reacting rationally to them, or maybe I was in a state of da Nile. My guess is that if I have a future event and my training cannot satisfactorily extricate myself from it, at the point I realize it may be hopeless I will panic. Hopefully that won't happen.