Question Panic in the experienced diver?

It would seem to me that, as we gain experience and go through some minor glitches on dives, we should increase our capacity to tolerate issues underwater. I'm wondering what could cause an experienced (say, more than 200 lifetime dives) diver to become distressed enough to lose rational thought. Has anyone here (who meets those criteria) been through a panic event? What caused it, and what did you do?

 

[kolmogorov]

I do not consider myself experienced, but I was at or beyond the threshold of panic in completely trivial situations that were well within the limits of my equipment, training, and experience, and with a thick margin. I was able to think rationally, and that rational thinking did little to help, as I felt my dog brain take over my frontal lobes, and make my body act against my will while I retained the full awareness of the situation and very little ability to control it. This makes me believe that anybody can panic.

One such example was on the surface, waiting before descent after a gaint stride, when I started to hyperventilate for no apparent reason, with a full tank, mask on my face, regulator in my mouth, a line to hold on to, and divers on a boat within a few feet. My last dive was a couple of weeks ago, I was a certified rescue diver, I knew what is happening to me, my mental state was more like a surprise if not annoyance rather than fear and desorientation, and amazingly, despite not being in danger, my attempts to calm myself down did not seem to really help. It took about 5 minutes for my breathing to return to normal. If this had happened at depth, it would probably not go down well. The only reason for this scenario that comes to mind is the fact that I had a bunch of new equipment with me (lights, camera, etc.) that I had not used before, that was not streamlined, and that felt kind of awkward. But this idea has not even crossed my mind until after I was back on the boat. Clearly, the trigger of this near-panic incident must have been something completely unconscious, and I doubt having more training or experience would have made much difference at all in my ability to suppress these sorts of symptoms.

Another example was after I aced my master diver skills, at a swimming pool. With a newfound confidence, I attempted the bailout exercise for the fun of it. As it happened, the tank slipped out of my hands, although I was able to catch it. As I was very slowly sinking, catching my tank and then turning the valve open for maybe 15-20 seconds or so, I knew that all I need is a few more turns of a valve I was already holding, and that it will take probably a few seconds only to be safe, and I remember trying to focus on completing that simple activity knowing that it is not that difficult, but I found myself swimming back to the surface nevertheless. I can definitely say that what I felt during this exercise was annoyance rather than disorientation, I certainly did not have thoughts rushing through my head or a spike in adrenaline level (since I know how it feels). Given the amount of time it all took, I probably had plenty of air in my lungs, and I was aware of that, but the urge to breathe was far too strong. I cannot believe that any amount of experience can allow someone to control this sort of an involuntary reaction. This is obviously driven by a separate cirtuit that the brain proper is not even connected to.

 

[tracydr]

Perhaps some of these "panic" episodes" are actually CO2 hits?
Had some real CO2 build-up in the pool today, practicing the darn equipment swap while buddy breathing for on the DM skills exam. The urge to breathe while CO2 building up is pretty overwhelming. Not the same as a panic (or PTSD, which is almost identical) but a very similar feeling, tough to sort out the difference and I could certainly see how one could lead to the other, as well!
I don't know how free divers do it.

 

[boulderjohn]

Perhaps some of these "panic" episodes" are actually CO2 hits?

I think so.

 

[wedivebc]

I got keyholed in a cave once and could not move my arms. My buddy had gone ahead as planned and was not aware of my situation. My heart rate went up and I was scared for a minute until I remembered my rebreather had 8hrs of gas and sorb on board and he could not leave the cave without getting past me so my worst case scenario was I was going to get cold. That realization sure took the pressure off.

 

[TSandM]

We have a phenomenon in horses that we call "spooking in place". The horse sees or hears something that scares it, and jumps a little, tenses, and then relaxes. I think that's often the response divers have to something potentially scary -- an initial squirt of adrenaline, and then the conscious mind takes over and offers analysis and solutions. Where panic really takes hold is where the anxiety level was high to begin with (diving above your actual competence), or where the conscious mind doesn't come up with anything useful to defuse the adrenaline. But I also think that there is a solid temperament component to all of it. People who have trouble staying calm enough to solve problems under stress don't tend to become firefighters or ER docs -- and may not make the best scuba divers, either.

 

[NWDCGUY]

Perhaps some of these "panic" episodes" are actually CO2 hits?Had some real CO2 build-up in the pool today, practicing the darn equipment swap while buddy breathing for on the DM skills exam. The urge to breathe while CO2 building up is pretty overwhelming. Not the same as a panic (or PTSD, which is almost identical) but a very similar feeling, tough to sort out the difference and I could certainly see how one could lead to the other, as well!I don't know how free divers do it.

Personally for me, my one "CO2 hit" experience was as sudden and shocking as being blindsided by a 18 wheeler. It suddenly went from, wow strong current, I'm kicking very hard right now... to YOUR GOING TO DIE! AIR!, SURFACE NOW!, THINK OF YOUR FAMILY!My PADI training had never taught or prepared me for such an incident: the intense air hunger, the tunnel vision, the tingling, and the biochemical response was very powerful. The surprise made it much worse. After the incident I learned this was a text book case of a CO2 Hit caused by overexertion at depth.While PADI covers how to avoid this, they do not cover the actual event and physiological triggers in detail. I think it's more serious than Narcosis, yet nothing was mentioned in my PADI AOW "Deep Dive". Underwater your pulmonary system has to work much harder, and overexertion is much easier to achieve. I suspect many of the heart attacks in diving are caused by this.You probably can trigger one, just kick as fast as you can at depth until it happens. You'll eventually black out and drown, but your nervous system will go off first. Mine was triggered at 100 feet in a ripping current, after maybe 5-10 minutes.The air hunger was extremely unpleasant, I would compare it to holding your hand over a flame. It is very difficult to slow down and act rationally while receiving emergency messages from your nervous system. It's was NOT like: Oh dear a lion is going to eat me, what do I do?It WAS like: oh lion has bitten my leg off, IT HURTS, now what do I do?

 

[Max Speed]

I was in the wading pool over the weekend practicing tying knots while mask off and breathing from my spare air. Since i had no weights on my wife had to stand on my back to hold me under. I had a momentary panic that water would get up my nose and i would choke and drown.

To control my panic I forced myself to work out a plan where I would beat her back with a flotation noodle while crawling up the ladder...

FWIW- The spare air had plenty of gas for the 4 foot ascent.

Sent from my SPH-P100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Scoober]

I was teaching in a backpacky locale in the Western Carrib, and I had 3 long-term (several months) DM candidates. Did many dives with them, and they were all solid with a couple hundred dives each. So, I was very surprised when, on a client dive with one of my candidates training as a back-up guide, this candidate went into a panic. One moment he was fine, and then he was in an inverted position at about 75 feet/23 meters. I thought he was just sort of showing off buoyancy control skills or something. But he was really panicked! Never forget those eyes...I linked up with him and immediately put another DM in charge of the balance of the dive and took my guy topside. Whatenthe? Eventually, he was freaked out enough to admit that he had smoked some non-tobacco product just before getting on-board the boat. I was certainly pissed off and let him know it. Not by shouting, and certainly not in front of others, but otherwise. He told me that nothing in particular set him off. That evening I took him out for a bit and reminded him of the time when he was so baked that he couldn't remember where he was living at the time. That just resulted in being lost for a while (in a place where it is virtually impossible to be lost). Imagine what could happen with being baked underwater? Don't reckon he will do it again as he really did think he was about to meet his end. The most obvious thing here is--never, ever dive baked. I suppose the other thing is the fact that the mindset induced by smoking certain things is ideally suited to inducing panic. Starts with a small seed, and then grows and you can't shake it, and then things just spiral out of control. The danger starts entirely between the ears but is potentially deadly because of the underwater environment.

 

[peterbj7]

Personally for me, my one "CO2 hit" experience was as sudden and shocking as being blindsided by a 18 wheeler. It suddenly went from, wow strong current, I'm kicking very hard right now... to YOUR GOING TO DIE! AIR!, SURFACE NOW!, THINK OF YOUR FAMILY!My PADI training had never taught or prepared me for such an incident: the intense air hunger, the tunnel vision, the tingling, and the biochemical response was very powerful. The surprise made it much worse. After the incident I learned this was a text book case of a CO2 Hit caused by overexertion at depth.While PADI covers how to avoid this, they do not cover the actual event and physiological triggers in detail. I think it's more serious than Narcosis, yet nothing was mentioned in my PADI AOW "Deep Dive". Underwater your pulmonary system has to work much harder, and overexertion is much easier to achieve. I suspect many of the heart attacks in diving are caused by this.You probably can trigger one, just kick as fast as you can at depth until it happens. You'll eventually black out and drown, but your nervous system will go off first. Mine was triggered at 100 feet in a ripping current, after maybe 5-10 minutes.The air hunger was extremely unpleasant, I would compare it to holding your hand over a flame. It is very difficult to slow down and act rationally while receiving emergency messages from your nervous system. It's was NOT like: Oh dear a lion is going to eat me, what do I do?It WAS like: oh lion has bitten my leg off, IT HURTS, now what do I do?

Are you sure it wasn't a simple case of outbreathing your regulator? I've had pretty well what you describe, and the worst case was when I was dropped in the wrong place to dive one side of a reef at Tiran in Egypt and had to push like hell against a ripping current to get back to where the current I wanted separated from the one I was in. I used a reef hook to help, and when I felt much as you've described above I simply relaxed and held position with the reef hook. Then after maybe a minute of total inactivity I was able to make the final push. Only one other person in my group made it, and the two of us had a lovely dive!

 

[The Chairman]

Are you sure it wasn't a simple case of outbreathing your regulator? I've had pretty well what you describe,

Those are classic signs of a CO2 hit. Perhaps you should take note. Denial is never a good strategy under water.