PADI vs SDI

[oly5050user]

when was the last time you had to remove a tank u/w because of entanglement?
I never did in over 40 yrs of diving,35 yrs teaching.. and we dive real wrecks here off south shore Long Island NY and NJ. I have done it to get into a compartment on a wreck,which I do not recommend for most people.Removal on surface is a different skill than uw removal.Yes there is a place for it on small boats/heavy gear/older divers/etc..

 

[muddiver]

R&R is a skill that can, and I have used, in the open ocean. Every so often a cylinder will slip out of the nice little cammed nylon strap of the BC and the only really effective way to put it back is to remove the BC, on the bottom, and re-install it. Try it on the surface and you have nothing to push aginst to move the cylinder around.

 

[Scott]

when was the last time you had to remove a tank u/w because of entanglement?
I never did in over 40 yrs of diving,35 yrs teaching.. and we dive real wrecks here off south shore Long Island NY and NJ. I have done it to get into a compartment on a wreck,which I do not recommend for most people.Removal on surface is a different skill than uw removal.Yes there is a place for it on small boats/heavy gear/older divers/etc..

July 24, 2007 Fish Lake, Utah. I got caught on some heavy monofiliment line had to take it off to cut loose becuase I couldn't reach it.

Last month I watched another diver who was a past student fun diving do it, not because of entanglement but because his tank slipped. They had it under control so no assistance was required.

Numerous times I've watch divers and some students get entangled in the kelp beds of California.

<enter joking mode>
oly, you need to dive some 'real hazardous' environments and stay off of wrecks
</ joke mode>

 

[sweatfrog]

Nope. They change them fairly frequently. The last major change of which I'm aware was when they removed the swimming requirement in 2000.

As you said later in this thread, they made the swimming requirement optional. They did not remove it.

"AGAIN, can you name a MAJOR difference between two agencies standards while teaching and<sic> open water diver course?"

I don't have a copy of the YMCA S & P, nor am I going to pay for one. Without that I can't and don't have any desire to debate this issue further.

Neither dive stores nor instructors write agency standards. This is about agency standards.

Where do you think a lot of the standards come from, if not the stores and Instructors.

When it's a full doff and don that must be passed without assistance, I'll consider it a confidence building skill.

Confidence building has a lot of different levels. I was unaware that the YMCA taught solo diving, so you don't have a buddy to help you.

Don't worry, there's lots more to teach beyond this in the SLAM class.

When I took the SLAM class many years ago, I could have taught it. I didn't have to pay for it, so that was a saving grace.

Read Dennis Graver's SCUBA Diving, then tell me it's difficult to teach.

The same Dennis Graver from PADI, NAUI and Skindiver? It's funny when the experts people use worked for the place they are trashing.

Do you now believe their are major differences between the standards of different agencies entry level course?

You and I have always known that there are differences. If you're doing this gratuitously, then get with the program. I expect to be paid for my time, just like a professional in any other business. Part of that comes from quantity, as well as quality.

 

[Walter]

As you said later in this thread, they made the swimming requirement optional. They did not remove it.

An optional requirement? Is it a requirement or is it optional? According to PADI standards, it is optional.

op·tion·al
–adjective 1. left to one's choice; not required or mandatory: Formal dress is optional.
2. leaving something to choice.

re·quire·ment
–noun 1. that which is required; a thing demanded or obligatory: One of the requirements of the job is accuracy.
2. an act or instance of requiring.
3. a need or necessity: to meet the requirements of daily life.

 

[stimpy4242]

ok i think the problem is when you say swimming is requirement you are making people think there is absolutely no endurance requirement in water...I do understand your point.

PADI says you can do EITHER, but one HAS to be done, a 200m swim or a 300m swim using mask snorkel and fins.

And I think this is fair in the fact that we are allowing people who may be less or have disability to conquer a challenge in a way that still allows them to participate in a sport. First, we are scuba diving, not qualifying for a swim team. When diving we wear a mask, fins and snorkel(ok maybe not a snorkel) and if a person can swim using them that should be fine. They are not becoming a lifeguard or anything like that. They are trying to get involved in the sport of diving. Plus, when was the last time you went diving with a bcd that you could inflate to keep you up? Point being, is they have found a way to accomodate those who still want to be in a sport.

I mean if you say its BS, thats fine, but then I think you are telling the people who are paralyzed who use the special seated skiis, or people who have amputations and run in races using prosthetics that they are BS too, and I am sure they would have something to say about that.

Now when it comes to being in a role where you would need to swim, to say save a student, such as being a DM or an instructor there is a strict swimming requirement that is NOT an option.

 

[BarryNL]

Hi!
my parents are taking their first steps into scuba this weekend (i am too but we are in different places) and their class is SDI cert. Mine is PADI which i've always heard is the most reputable. Can you give me and feedback of the pros/cons of SDI?
Thanks!
Jacq

I take a slightly different approach to most of those who answer this question - I say it really doesn't matter. Your basic Open Water certification is just a licence to begin learning - no OW course can teach you more than a small fraction of what you really need to know about SCUBA. You should use your OW course as a spring board to begin learning and gaining experience for yourself. Once you've done your course start reading a lot about SCUBA (and participating here) and start diving in various different environments, slowly pushing the boundaries of your diving skills. After a year or so of doing this the original certifying agency won't matter a jot.

 

[Walter]

ok i think the problem is when you say swimming is requirement you are making people think there is absolutely no endurance requirement in water.

If anyone has gotten that idea, I apologize. PADI requires an evaluation that includes either a 200 yd swim or a 300 yd snorkel.

 

[stimpy4242]

The other thing that I might point out is for the snorkel, you must remain face in the water the entire time. This means no swimming on your back or whatever, if you consider the fact that the 200m swim and that from YMCA from what I am told is any stroke. So potentially a person could swim 200m all on their back, nice and slow...the argument could easily be made that it was not really an endurance test. Plus swimming on the surface with fins, is sometimes even more difficult. Like I said I think they are just the same...especially because the one is longer.

 

[Walter]

The other thing that I might point out is for the snorkel, you must remain face in the water the entire time. This means no swimming on your back or whatever,

That is not in PADI standards. PADI standards state: "candidates complete a:

1) 200 metre/yard continuous surface swim and a 10-minute swim/float without using any swim aids

OR

2) 300 metre/yard swim with a mask, snorkel and fin and a 10-minute swim/float without using any swim aids."

There's no mention of face in the water.

if you consider the fact that the 200m swim and that from YMCA from what I am told is any stroke. So potentially a person could swim 200m all on their back, nice and slow...

You could certainly swim the entire distance on your back, nice and slow, but to meet YMCA standards, you'll have to swim 300 yards.

the argument could easily be made that it was not really an endurance test.

It's not an endurance test. I'm not aware of any endurance test in any entry level class. It's a swim test.

Plus swimming on the surface with fins, is sometimes even more difficult.

Surely you don't expect anyone to be naive enough to believe that.

Like I said I think they are just the same...especially because the one is longer.

No swim aids vs mask, snorel fins......hummm....does look the same to me.