PADI vs SDI

[offthewall1]

If you have a choice between PADI and anything else, it does matter, and you are normally better off with anything else.

Thanks for an extremely accurate quote.

The shame is that new divers generally don't know any better and therefore all think PADI is the way to go...

Why? Because at least PADI seems to live by their own "Put Another Dollar In" ideals. I see more advertisement for PADI then any other agency. So give them credit where it is due... Great marketing strategy... but perhaps if they spent as much time on standards and shop and instructor oversight, we would't even be having this conversation.

I vote for SDI, PSAI and others before PADI... It is the mix of their standards, their shops and their Instructors that produce some very questionable divers.

With that said, there ar eexceptions to every rule... which means there are some really good PADI shops... with really good PADI Instructors. These are usually the ones that teach above and beyond PADI standards... and I applaud them

Here's to diving... no matter what your C-Card Says!

 

[Walter]

AGAIN, can you name a MAJOR difference between two agencies standards while teaching and open water diver course?

One or two. Let's just look at PADI & YMCA and this is just off the top of my head, so I'm bound to miss quite a bit.

YMCA requires divers to be able to swim, not just before they are certified, but before in water teaching begins. Swimming is an optional skill for PADI.

YMCA requires teaching actual skin diving skills (Mask & snorkel recovery, mask clearing), PADI requires very little skin diving.

YMCA requires confidence building skills (doff & don, bailout), PADI does not.

YMCA requires rescue skills (Simulate in water rescue breathing while towing & removing gear, Rescuea simulated panicked victim on surface) while PADI only requires towing a simulated exhausted diver.

YMCA requires instructors to evaluate a student's trim on their open water dives, PADI does not.

YMCA requires stress and panic to be taught, PADI does not.

YMCA requires subcutaneous emphysema, pneumothorax, mediastinal emphysema, and air embolism to be taught, while PADI requires only mention of air embolism.

YMCA requires its instructors to teach about drowning, PADI does not.

 

[fisherdvm]

Thanks for an extremely accurate quote.


I vote for SDI, PSAI and others before PADI... It is the mix of their standards, their shops and their Instructors that produce some very questionable divers.

I have some objection to simply say "others" before PADI. Not because PADI is great. But simply it is not totally true that others' are not as greedy at selling C cards than PADI.

Show me any thing from the SSI open water curriculum that is different than PADI then I would believe your statement.

They both allow 300 yard snorkels.

They both require same skill sets to be done underwater, and actually PADI require more - free flowing regulator.

PADI pushes C cards. SSI do too. They offer a new card every time you complete 10 to 50 more dives.

 

[Walter]

I have some objection to simply say "others" before PADI. Not because PADI is great. But simply it is not totally true that others' are not as greedy at selling C cards than PADI.

Show me any thing from the SSI open water curriculum that is different than PADI then I would believe your statement.

They both allow 300 yard snorkels.

They both require same skill sets to be done underwater, and actually PADI require more - free flowing regulator.

PADI pushes C cards. SSI do too. They offer a new card every time you complete 10 to 50 more dives.

Excellent point. PADI is not alone in having low standards.

 

[nereas]

Excellent point. PADI is not alone in having low standards.

Indeed, PADI is not alone, but I do believe that they did invent the science of low standards, and have perfected it ever since.

LA Co, NAUI, and YMCA had gone a long way towards making the standards meaningful and challenging, back in the 1960s.

Then PADI came along and invented "putting another dollar in," synonymous in those days also with "pay and dive immediately."

 

[fisherdvm]

If you are a good businessman, you would recognize an opportunity when you see one. PADI saw a demand, took risk, and grew.

YMCA and LA county languished in their desire to maintain standard.

I see NAUI suffering from lack of money, and following the same path, although not to the same extent.

Then the rest come along, selling the same product as PADI, relabeled, shuffle a few programs, and join in the crowd flaming PADI for doing exactly what they are doing.

I guess it comes down to survival the fittest. Or in this case, survival the fattest. Consumer beware, I guess.

It is about time that ALL certifying agencies put their TRUE standard on scubaboard for all to see. PADI is pretty straight forward... Their standard has been the same for over 15 years, minus buddy breathing.

I really don't think there is too much difference in standard for the rest of them? Do you really know, Nereas??? You sure seem to know alot.

 

[sweatfrog]

I got my first and only instructor card from NAUI for reasons that were important to me and me only. Other people have chose to get their instructor card from other agencies for reasons that were important to them and them only. None of this makes any agency any better than any other agency. It also doesn't automatically make any given instructor better than any other instructor. The point is logically irrelevent.

My point there was about agency professionals, not industry professionals. Have you ever worked for NAUI Headquarters?

YMCA requires divers to be able to swim, not just before they are certified, but before in water teaching begins. Swimming is an optional skill for PADI.

A lot of recreational divers flop around with their fins on, but they do have them. While I agree that feeling comfortable in the water is important, I don't think swimming skills are the measure for scuba diving. Depending on the place you're at, swimming can be a challenge with fins, much less practical without them. This point is irrelevent.

YMCA requires teaching actual skin diving skills (Mask & snorkel recovery, mask clearing), PADI requires very little skin diving.

That is up to the Dive Store and the Instructor. It also depends on the student. I'm not going to fail a student just because they have problems when skin diving, but working with them on the basics does build their confidence.

YMCA requires confidence building skills (doff & don, bailout), PADI does not.

In Confined Water Dive Five, the performance requirements state:
1. Remove, replace, adjust and secure the scuba unit on the bottom, with minimal assistance, in water too deep to stand up in.
2. Remove, replace, adjust and secure weight belt or weight system on the bottom in water too deep to stand up in.
I guess you missed that doff and don exercise.

YMCA requires rescue skills (Simulate in water rescue breathing while towing & removing gear, Rescuea simulated panicked victim on surface) while PADI only requires towing a simulated exhausted diver.

Here you are in 2008 trying to justify teaching the class from the 1960's. Let the student get a taste of diving in the beginning class. Don't try to teach it all there.

People learn to snow ski on the bunny slope, not in the trees. Save these skills for later, after people get some more time underwater.

YMCA requires instructors to evaluate a student's trim on their open water dives, PADI does not.

PADI talks a lot about buoyancy, but not trim. You're right about that. Salt water, fresh water, thickness of suit, hood and gloves all change both buoyancy and trim. It takes a while for the student to get those nuances and it's some of the most important information they can learn.

YMCA requires stress and panic to be taught, PADI does not.

Not in the beginning course. I am not a big fan of the OW portion of the Rescue Course for PADI, but the confined water skills have been thought out in a somewhat logical manner.

When I took a SLAM course many years ago, it didn't hold a candle to my prior training either. However, if I can learn just a few beneficial things, then it was worth my time.

YMCA requires subcutaneous emphysema, pneumothorax, mediastinal emphysema, and air embolism to be taught, while PADI requires only mention of air embolism.

Always treat for the worst in a DCI incident. Subcutaneous emphysema doesn't belong on that list though.

YMCA requires its instructors to teach about drowning, PADI does not.

CPR used to be required also.

I think everyone knows what happens if you stay under water too long.

I have no desire to go back to where we were in the 60's and try to teach it all in one course. It didn't work then and it sure won't work now.

 

[stimpy4242]

YMCA requires stress and panic to be taught, PADI does not.

YMCA requires subcutaneous emphysema, pneumothorax, mediastinal emphysema, and air embolism to be taught, while PADI requires only mention of air embolism.

YMCA requires its instructors to teach about drowning, PADI does not.

Actually as a medical professional, and maybe a medical mod soon, I would like to point out that the medical conditions you stated above can not be taught in just a sitting. There are each their own unique thing. In addition, it would be rare and unethical for a lay person to think they could diagnose any of those problems above, ok with the exception of drowning, I think you can figure that one out...haha.

Stages of stress and panic however are also difficult items to teach. All of the above require clinical experience through rotations in the medical field.

 

[Scubakevdm]

Excellent point. PADI is not alone in having low standards.

I agree.

 

[Walter]

Their standard has been the same for over 15 years, minus buddy breathing.

Nope. They change them fairly frequently. The last major change of which I'm aware was when they removed the swimming requirement in 2000.

This point is irrelevent.

You can agree or disagree with its value, but all of the points, including this one, are in direct response to the question, "AGAIN, can you name a MAJOR difference between two agencies standards while teaching and<sic> open water diver course?" It is a major difference and therefore very relevent. I happen to believe it is essential.

That is up to the Dive Store and the Instructor.

Neither dive stores nor instructors write agency standards. This is about agency standards.

I guess you missed that doff and don exercise.

No, I didn't miss it. I'm well aware that PADI requires a partial doff & don and allows assistance. When it's a full doff and don that must be passed without assistance, I'll consider it a confidence building skill.

Here you are in 2008 trying to justify teaching the class from the 1960's. Let the student get a taste of diving in the beginning class. Don't try to teach it all there.

I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm merely answering a question. As for justification, the proof is in the pudding. The class works and it works very well. Don't worry, there's lots more to teach beyond this in the SLAM class.

Not in the beginning course.

Yes, in the Open Water course.

Stages of stress and panic however are also difficult items to teach.

Read Dennis Graver's SCUBA Diving, then tell me it's difficult to teach.

Do you now believe their are major differences between the standards of different agencies entry level course?