PADI tables finally going away?

[chuck34gboro]

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this but I took the PADI Nitrox course in May, the knowledge reviews were very table oriented. We went over those problems, as well as other table problems with the instructor in the class. When we get the test at the end, NOT ONE single table problem on the test.

My wife is taking OW in August. I'll let you know if she has tables on her tests.

 

[Stujiro]

As for SDI... No tables, just computers? I see the point, divers today ARE NOT going to use tables. They ARE going to use computers. But getting rid of them all together I think is not the right way to do it. Let's face it... SCUBA training is getting more like fast food. In today, certified tomorrow. It took me 4 weeks to get certified about 20 years ago. 6 classroom sessions, 2 confined water days and 2 open water days. I agree that the training today get's most of that across in a shorter period of time but I do not think any further "cuts" need to be made. On another note... I actuall know an instructor that said to me "I don't even know why the instructor has to be in the water". It is this attitude of people cutting corners and breaking standards that I cannot stand!!! I know this thread is a LONG one but hopefully my words will not fall on deaf ears. Keep the tables, teach the students and have fun.

This is probably a bad place to jump in as this is my first scubaboard post, but here goes anyway.

I'm currently getting certified with SDI, through Dive Right In Scuba in the chicago suburbs. My training requires individual study (which everyone leaves out of their hours estimates) of about 6 hours. This was reading the book, watching the DVD and doing the worksheets. The worksheets and reading had to be done before you attended the review session. We then had 6 hours of classroom time split between two nights. This has been followed by two seperate 3 hours closed water session for a total of 6 hours of closed water, and this weekend i'll do 4 dives at Haigh to complete my certification.

SDI certainly makes a point of using a dive computer, but not to the exclusion of tables. I asked a question about them in class and the instructor was happy to answer. Also the tables are Appendix A of the Open Water book, which includes examples and sample problems and things of this nature. Just for grins i took a few minutes and worked through them. Do i feel like i understand diving physics better after i did that? Not especially, but i'm glad i know what all the fuss is about. And in fairness I'd learned about Boyle's law way back in high school and college so it wasn't my first exposure.

I really just wanted to take a minute to refute the idea that all training now adays is in one day certified the next. My process has been 4 weeks so far. Also my LDS (dunno about other shops) equips ALL rental regulators with computers. They also offer a big discount on a dive computer during your training. My dive computer cost barely more than my fins, and it's a hollis NG02.

I really like the idea of audible ascent warnings, since one of the biggest dangers the rec diver faces is a too rapid ascent.

 

[Peter Guy]

[Once again I'm sucked in -- shouldn't respond but....]

I really like the idea of audible ascent warnings, since one of the biggest dangers the rec diver faces is a too rapid ascent.

If you dive in cold water, those "audible ascent warnings" probably won't be heard through the hood -- or if they are, they won't be understood -- HONEST.

The REAL issue isn't a "too rapid ascent" -- although that may NOT be very good for you -- but any ascent where you hold your breath (which, when in a panic situation, may also be way too rapid -- a double whammy).

 

[Jandee]

If my computer tells me I can dive to 130 feet for 55 minutes I know this is wrong because I am familiar with the tables. This is the same as kid learning division on a calculator and can't do long division. You need to now the basics before you learn the short cuts (aka: easy way).

 

[promocop]

I have not been on a dive in the last 20 years where EVERYONE did not have some type o computer. Tables, good back up...computers better.

 

[tracydr]

Most recreational diving can be done without either of the tools everyone is batting about. You dive an aluminum 80 cu ft cylinder, with a mask, fins, and a simple regulator and a system to let you know that the cylinder is running low, and walla! you are SCUBA diving.

Tables and computers are useless clutter that the majority of vacation and weekend divers don't comprehend, but make great sales items. So lets dismiss them because they are just marketing gimicks for dive stores to pad their profits with.

We all know you can't exceed the limits of no-decompression diving as long as you only dive with the industry standard of the 80 cu ft aluminum wonder. Better yet sell your student steel 72's, they will be back for air fills more often. So why bother a new diving student with the inconvenient struggle of learning the theory of diving physiology through working a dive table or bothering with an inconveniently expensive computer. Jacques never used either one and he managed to successfuly SCUBA dive for many years.

BTY NetDoc, your neckless looks like hammered dog s**t. Very amaturish. I can't belive you posted a picture. I would never be seen wearing such a neanderthalic trinket.

I've gone past NDLs many times while diving anAL 60! Multiple, deep dives on air, small diver good with air, not hard at all. I'd probably go over a lot more if I used an 80 routinely but i'd have to solo as any buddy vie ever been with would be out of gas. An idea of how tables work, a computer and a buddy using a video get me out of the water long before that AL 60 runs out!
Tables are important. Just like learning basic arithmetic is important. It's the basic understanding of how a table works that helps you understand how to use the computer.
Oh, and for the deco times- I've gone as much as a 30 minute requirement and was able to finish up with plenty of gas left in my AL 60 so not understanding tables and diving without a computer/table would be deadly, IMHO.

 

[ScubaSteve]

They make an AL60?? I learn something new everyday. I've seen 63's but I am now one tank smarter .

 

[The Chairman]

It's the basic understanding of how a table works that helps you understand how to use the computer.

Again, tables and computers are based on algorithms that are in turn based on tissue group strategies. One represents N2 loading as a letter group, while the other uses a bar graph.

Which is easier on a car to understand?

Your Gasoline group is

K​

or...

I would suggest that if you REALLY understand how your table works, then you would be able to generate one on the fly. No, not simply regurgitate it, but generate it.

 

[The Chairman]

If my computer tells me I can dive to 130 feet for 55 minutes I know this is wrong because I am familiar with the tables.

And I know this is wrong because I am familiar with my PDC's NDLs. In fact, I vet every NDL with the rule of 120.

Why I think PDCs are superior to tables:

• They don't forget to record times, depths, etc.
• They don't get narced.
• They are more flexible than tables.
• They are used more than tables.
• They are my dive log and I can't make them cheat.

 

[lowviz]

And I know this is wrong because I am familiar with my PDC's NDLs. In fact, I vet every NDL with the rule of 120.

Why I think PDCs are superior to tables:

• They don't forget to record times, depths, etc.
• They don't get narced.
• They are more flexible than tables.
• They are used more than tables.
• They are my dive log and I can't make them cheat.

NetDoc,
Here's my favorite:

• They give a superior, variable ascent-rate procedure.

Jandee:
My PDC has battery issues and is not what I'd call user-friendly underwater.
Tables on my left arm

PDC's are superior, but why not both???